Question about operations on my layout / signal positions

[Randy]

Hello.

I'm asking for people's thoughts on my potential layout operations and how I should signal it.

My layout is to be based in BR late crest era on an ex LMS line.

I've attached an image with annotations of what I'm planning.
It consists of an up and down line and a goods yard. I'm wanting platform 3 to serve as the terminus for a branchline with a junction to the up line off the layout further down the up line (I don't have room for a separate branchline so imagination will have to do). This means branchline trains will enter the layout on the up line in the reverse direction. The branchline is to serve both goods and passengers so I want a DMU to pull into platform 3 and take passengers as well as using platform 3 to hold small goods trains. That way, all three sidings can be used for preparing goods trains for both the mainline and branchline. Is that something that seems valid?

I'm also wanting to pick up and drop off goods from the mainline. I don't know if it would be prototypical for goods to be shunted to and from trains on both the up and down line?

The headshunt siding I was thinking could also be used to store some rolling stock.

There is also another crossover in the fiddle yard so locos can use both the crossover seen in the photo and that one to run around their trains if needed. (The imaginary position of the other crossover would be just on the other side of the layout exit closest to the camera (a road bridge).)

Please let me know what you think of these operations. Do they seem likely to have happened? Any specifics on how they might have happened? And with this in mind does anyone have any suggestions as to how I should signal the layout?

Thanks in advance!

[Brian]

Hi
The plan looks to me at first glance to be OK.
However if mine I would have tried to get a facing point installed on the up line at the end of the three way point to allow direct access to the siding otherwise any train entering the siding will have to pass the sidings entrance point and then propel back into the sidings! I also would make the headshunt line longer.,
As for signalling you need to decide on whether its to be semaphore or colour light signalled?
If semaphore you will need a few straight post types If colour light I would aim for three aspect maximum.

[Randy]

Hi
The plan looks to me at first glance to be OK.
However if mine I would have tried to get a facing point installed on the up line at the end of the three way point to allow direct access to the siding otherwise any train entering the siding will have to pass the sidings entrance point and then propel back into the sidings! I also would make the headshunt line longer.,
As for signalling you need to decide on whether its to be semaphore or colour light signalled?
If semaphore you will need a few straight post types If colour light I would aim for three aspect maximum.

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your thoughts, yes I agree with your facing point suggestion, I have thought about that too but there are no prebuilt points of the right curvature to fit the gradual S curve of the track (the curvature of that is constrained by the size of the baseboard) and I'd rather sacrifice the crossover for a nice curve. Maybe when I'm good enough one day I can scratch build my own track.

I'm going with semaphores, most likely Dapol's motorised ones as It'll be too much to build my own motorised signals in N gauge.

I'm thinking that I need two starters, one for the upline, positioned at the end of platform 2, and one to control entrance to the up line from the yard and platform 3. The home signals would be off the layout and then it's just shunting signals that remain.

[Brian]

I would try and place the left hand point on the up main immediately after the three way. This appears to be straight track? The headshunt then straightened and lengthened.
Minimum I would signal is four Home and two distants. The distants being near the tunnel mouth. The home signal shown on the Down line between distant and the platform could be moved towards the station onto the other board if required,
I assume this is N gauge rather than OO ?

My take ....

[Randy]

Oh, of course, I see what you mean now, that would actually be doable, the track is straight enough for long enough to get a short set of points in there.

Thanks for the signalling suggestions as well. And yes it is N gauge, great how much more you can get in on a smaller scale as I’ve only got 2’x6’.

[Gareth 73]

Nowt wrong with track plan u have as the lms didnt like the cost of facing points on mainlines. So dmu arrives 1 shunts to 2 or 3 to await departure. The sidings are served by up trains only unless theres a spare loco to assist in removal/ placing wagons on down trains.
As to run rounds u could lengthen head shunt and have another set of trailing points at the end and loco comes bang road along the up back to station or as u say if next box was close and being semaphore it probably was loco could disappear and come back.

As to signaling this is how I'd do it. No distants as not long enough distance. No home on approach to plat 2 as dont seem to be room for 1 from pic but needed to simplify shunting arrangements in real life. Plat 3 starter needs a call on arm/shunt signal attached to allow shunting operations.
Advance starters on both roads again to simplify shunt moves to give the box station limits ( in real life station limits on absolute block signalling simplifies a lot of problems) otherwise ur for ever shunting into forward section or shunt outside home signal and pestering the Bobby in either box concerned

[Randy]

Thanks Gareth, especially for the signal diagram.

Glad people think the track plan is ok. It’s unlikely I’ll add anything to the headshunt, mainly to save money and time because I’d love to get some scenery on soon.

I forgot to mention the signal box position before. I’m wanting to position it just up from the 3 way point on the other side of the headshunt as I think it would look best there aesthetically but obviously this isn’t immediately adjasent to the running lines. Does this sound like an ok position? I’d imagine it might be more prototypical for it to be on the other side, next to the running lines, in terms of exchanging tokens with passing trains being easier. But if it’s on that side the viewer won’t see much of the signal box.

[Gareth 73]

Signal box here no tokens to be exchanged here as train wouldn't get token till it was about to enter single line and by the look of ur layout the single line would start at another box of scene

[Randy]

Oh right, that makes things straight forward then, just where I wanted it.

Does the size of the signal box matter much? I’m thinking in terms of its operations. The box I’m looking to get is the midland signal box from peco
https://peco-uk.com/products/midland-signal-box
Is that sort of thing appropriate in this layout?

One other question, about signals. Would it make sense for the platform 3 starter, with the shunting signal, to be placed not on the platform but just between the headshunt and sidings before the signal box? I ask incase I can’t fit the two signals on the platform.

[Gareth 73]

U need the following levers in box to signal ur layout
1 down distant
2 down home
3 down starter
4 shunt down to up
5 main to main xover
6 shunt up to down
Shunt up to plat 2
Shunt up to 3
Shunt to sidings
7 shunt neck to 3
Shunt to sidings
8 up main to sidings xover
9 facing point lock for 7b
10 points plat 3 sidings
11 platform 3 starter
12 platform 3 shunt signal
13 shunt sidings to up main
Shunt sidings to neck
14up advance starter
15 platform 2 starter
16 up home
17 up distant

The siding points would b hand operated.
Rather than move starter on 3 towards pointwork which means u cant shunt properly with dmu in 3 move the signal on 2 towards pointwork


As to ur proposed box that fits a 20 lever frame so spot on.