HS2

[Steve M]

Well said LC. The biggest problem, in my opinion, is that when railways were new in the 1800's, they were built by investors looking to make a profit over a period of years. I know that didn't work out too well but that was the general driver for the growth.

These days 'infrastructure' is in the hands of politicians and franchise holders whose attention span is either the next election or the next franchise tender. Unfortunately anything that is outside that timescale is seen as someone else's problem which leads to 'sticking plaster' solutions like smart motorways.

Imagine the cabinet meeting:

Transport secretary: "the motorways need widening, they're full."
PM: "that lane is empty" points to hard shoulder
TS: "that's dangerous and will fill up again by the time we open it."
PM: "that's fine, I'll be in the House of Lords by then, but I will be able to say I've done something and will be able to point out my 'legacy'. Next."

[Tricky Dicky]

When HS2 was first mooted I was all for it on the basis that it was a scandal that we who invented railways have been left standing by the likes of Japan, France and Spain to mention just a few. On that basis it would simply be a vanity project but looking at the hard economics and benefits whilst it would still be needed I think other more vital projects need to precede it, being a northerner I am thinking of Northern Powerhouse Rail. I think if more people from the Midlands and the South could see the dire straits of the railways across from Liverpool to Hull, they would be appalled. I recall in the mid 70’s going for an interview in Hemel Hempstead and for some reason had to change trains on the journey standing on the platform of some station I cannot remember. I was amazed to see 4 lines passing through the station with express trains hurtling through at full speed on the centre tracks and the stopping trains on the outer tracks. Half a century later and you will not see anything like that trans-Pennines. Even the current proposals for NPR are a piecemeal solution with only partial electrification so it is not surprising northerners look enviously at the billions being spent on Crossrail with its mounting costs and delays and wonder if HS2 will be a similar project staving off the real improvements needed to get people to work. It is not surprising that both Northern rail and Transpennine rail have come under criticism for poor service the poor infrastructure has no doubt added to their own incompetence.

The transport issues do not end there Leeds a large commercial hub still has no mass transit system despite millions spent in proposals and feasibility studies just a few guided bus routes. Bradford is even worse, one guided bus route but every bus is fitted with the running gear to use it. Why Leeds and Bradford cannot get together and like Manchester and Salford and develop a transit system linking the cities and outlying areas after all they are virtually kissing cousins.

The road network is also in dire straits. Having spent most of my commute travelling a short section of the M62 it does not take much to turn it into the longest car park even with the sticking plaster solutions of Smart motorway sections. We desperately need another transpennine motorway further to the north to give easier access to the Northwest from Tyneside and Teesside.

The North is having to deal with the dilemma posed by HS2, if we are going to have it, it has to come North otherwise what would that say to the population of the North. However, the existing network is creaking under the strain and is affecting people’s ability to get to work. As a northerner in West Yorkshire my gut feelings are that HS2 should be shelved and the money spent interconnecting our northern cities and towns with the sort of networks we see in the South.

Richard

[Steve M]

It’s a shame the nation can’t do both - if only we weren’t spending money on other vanity projects instead.

I spent the last five years of my banking career based in Bolton (not far from the old LMS Horwich works) although I actually worked from home. This required regular visits to the North but it was faster and cheaper to fly to Manchester (expenses accounts have their place) than go the full distance by train.
I would get the train from the airport onto the city and out to Horwich Parkway for about £2.40 - a similar journey down south would have been over £10 at the time.

[Tony House]

Hi

In my humble opinion HS2 should have gone from London to Edinborough as phase one so as to join the two capitals together also London to Cardiff route should also be made. Also high speed links needs to be made west to east in the midlands and the north. Currently crossrail west to east of London is coming on line and a new south to north of London route is being dug, so why can not the disused tunnel cutting equipment be taken up north and new tunnels be cut through the pennines to help the east west routes.


The issue as I see it rail transport is using new high speed trains on the old Victorian routes which were never made with such speed in mind. So massive amounts of new track and routes need to be laid to iron out these issues and remove bottle necks so as to increase both speed and capacity on many lines.

[Stese]

It was my understanding that the point of HS2 wasn't to decrease travel time from london to the north but to create capacity in the system to allow the ECML and WCML to have major upgrades.... but the politicians have (maybe deliberately) mis-sold it, and stunted public opinion about it....

[cheshire lines]

I have to declare an interest here as the proposed HS2 route from Crewe to Manchester runs just outside our village and would result in years of disruption to road access if it were to be built, so maybe I'm biased against it!

The current journey time from Crewe to Euston is 2 hours 30 minutes, which seems fast enough to me. It takes about 11 minutes from our local station on the Liverpool to Crewe line, although parking can be a problem. Alternatively it takes about 40 minutes to drive to Crewe.

Our train 'service' to Manchester takes about an hour on a Northern Rail unit (either class 150 or 143 Pacer). When Northern took over the franchise, they promised to increase the service from hourly to half-hourly, but this hasn't happened , allegedly due to pathing problems through Stockport.

So on balance I'd prefer the money to be spent on improving other services in the North, (longer, more reliable trains, more electrification etc. than on a showcase project like HS2.

I recognise the argument about the current network approaching capacity, but has anyone investigated the possibility of building relief lines etc. to alleviate this, which wouldn't need to be suitable for high speed running. It's such a shame that the Great Central Route from London to Manchester and Sheffield succumbed to the Beeching cuts as that could be a useful alternative to the East and West Coast main lines.

With regard to 'smart' motorways, I was concerned when I read that many of them (including our recently opened stretch south of Junction 18 on the M6) don't have the latest technology to identify broken down cars etc. quickly).

[Walkingthedog]

We already have major roadworks to give access to depots to store all the equipment for the build. That’s life I’m afraid. Would be the same for any major transport project.

[Tricky Dicky]

Well it looks like we are going to get HS2 as the man who holds the public purse strings has spoken in favour of it. The other day a cost of £108bn was put about I see today they are pricing it at £88bn, who do you believe?

Richard