Lower Thames Yard

[Tallpaul70]

OOPs! In my last post I referred to a Ks Syphon C.
Silly boy, it was a syphon F!

I realized this when I fell over the long running thread here on RM on Ks products. Unfortunately, the posts on the same thread confirmed my fear that these vans died out in the mid 50s. It also told me, which I didn't want to hear that the kit was both inaccurate and a bit of a bad lot particularly in the bogie department.

So, having decided I like the van as a change from loads of Syphon Gs, I will have to see if I can find the correct white metal bogies, ignore the length errors, and invoke Rule 1 to run it in 1960/2!

My other point yesterday about Shell tankers is on the road to being solved.
When I said "Shell", what I really meant was "Shell-Mex and B.P.", because from 1932 to 1976 the two companies shared their distribution and tanks bore both logos. So my nice silver tankers with SHELL in large Red letters right down the sides are not right for 1960/2!

Hopefully I have sufficient tanks with the dual logos on, tomorrow we may find out.

I hope all your current modelling works are going well?
Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Hi All,
Further on yesterdays subject of the Shell tankers, thankfully I find that I have 10 of the 12 I need in appropriate livery. The other two I can get by amending the logos on two BP tanks I have to say BP at one end and Shell at the other instead of 4 BP logos!

In an earlier post I explained how I was going to run some expresses over the relief lines. I have now worked through my 1961 WTT for the down line and plan to run the following expresses:-

The Diesel Pullman, will run two return trips per day between the Lower fiddle yard and the main fiddle yard. Once in the Bristol Pullman slot and once in the South wales Pullman slot. For variety I will occasionally replace the diesel Pullman with a steam hauled Pullman set.

As I said earlier the, the Cornish Riviera and the Cathedrals expresses will run from the Main fiddle yard to the lower fiddle yard and reverse, passing in the Scenic area of the layout. When I get to do the up timetabling I may need to adjust the times slightly to fall in with the above, but trains can always be running late, can't they?

I also talked about having two express sets in each direction running round and round representing different trains at different times because they will not have any coach labels. I have now sorted out 7 trains each that they can represent. The actual trains vary in destination, chosen to space the runs out through the day.

Next will be to see how this works out for the up two express sets.

When I get used to running the layout there will always be opportunity to swap the up and down sets via crossovers at the ends of the main fiddle yard in order to increase the variety.

What I have yet to do with the down sets timings is to see how they fit with the real running on the Relief line of the down local and branch; passenger, parcels, and freight trains.

For instance the 0905 Paddington to Bristol which will be represented by the initial run round of my first round and round set is due through Maidenhead at 0933 and the 0835 Staff Paddington to Reading West train is due into Maidenhead at 0934 to 0936. Fine if the express is on the Mainline and the Staff on the relief line, but not so if they are both on the Relief line! (bearing in mind I will be running at half time to real time so one minute on the layout will only be a real 30 seconds! )

So I will probably run the Express a few minutes late -always!!

I hope the above is of interest?

Keep modelling and keep smiling
Cheers
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Hi All,
I am trying to get back to modelling and planning...….

I have now done the planning of the Up version of the Down expresses I posted about a few days ago. I won't bore you with the details, but it seemed to work. Just need to sort the consists for the four sets.
Another set of passenger workings I have started on is what I call the intermediate workings. These comprise the Paddington to Reading, Newbury, Didcot, Swindon, and Oxford trains that I suppose now we might term "Outer Suburban".
They were in the main corridor sets whose engines were Halls, with the occasional 61xx.
I have to decide whether to portray these by up and down round and round trains, main fiddle yard to lower fiddle yard and return trains, or a mixture of the two!
I intend to use my Collett and Hawksworth coaches so the trains will be mainly maroon with the odd Mk1s in blood and custard or chocolate and cream to give a bit of livery variety.
I have to also decide whether to include the one or two trains that started from Westbury and Frome but didn't always work directly back to those points.

Parcels trains are another area to work up, there being local Paddington to Reading/Didcot/Oxford runs and longer distance ones. I need to remember that there was an evening parcels from Shrewsbury to Paddington that picked up vans from Maidenhead so is worth including.

The main problem with all these types of train is fiddle yard capacity, not availability of locos and stock.
There will be more on these topics later, but a parting question:-

The morning Reading to Slough fish, as the fish vans were passenger rated stock rather than goods rated, would it have had a passenger brake van or a toad?

Keep smiling,
Only another x weeks (where x varies from 12 to 26 depending on who you listen to!), to go!!
Cheers
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Hi All,
As the Fish was a class C, I gues it would have had a Passenger Brake?.
So the next question is what sort of passenger Brake would have been used?
I am not sure if any fish would have been carried in it, but in some texts the train is referred to as a Fish and parcels train so parcels could have been carried.

I have another related set of questions:-
In 1959, before the closure of Reading SR Station, there was a parcels (?) bay at the eastern end of Reading Station.
On page 82 of " Through the Links at Southall and Old Oak Common" there is a picture taken from the approaching 1.15 Paddington to Weston Super Mare (due to pass Reading 1.48) of a Hall (presumably the Reading East End Pilot) on vans ready to pull them out of this bay. The text describes the bay as a Fish Dock and says they were to be attached to the 12.00 Oxford to Paddington Parcels (at Reading 1.36-2.00).

My questions:-
1) What traffic was handled in this bay
2) What sort of vans were used?
From what I can see of the vans, which are partly hidden by the Hall, they appear to be BGs?
3) The 12.00 parcels from Oxford was a Hall job? Might the Hall in the pic be the train engine rather than my first idea of the Reading east end pilot?
4) A likely candidate for bringing the vans to Reading is the 06.45 Paddington to Reading parcels, but this arrives at Reading at 10.04, which only allows 2 hours or so for unloading, so is this reasonable?

Many thanks for any thoughts?
Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Hi All,
I hope you are all well in these difficult times?

Here is my write up on Parcels trains for Lower Thames Yard:-

The parcels trains on Lower Thames Yard will be represented by 4 sets of vans with the following exceptions:-
1)The 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough and the 2010 Maidenhead to Reading which will have their own dedicated set. While they travel up the branch as a set in the morning, they return down the branch individually attached to the various afternoon passenger trains.
2) The 0720 Reading to Slough Fish vans will be represented by 5 vans which travel from the lower fiddle yard in the morning entering the Branch fiddle yard clockwise. They return individually attached to part fitted or unfitted freights.
3) There will be an up and a down milk tanker train representing the several milk trains in each direction on the WR Main line.

As there are 6 “Local” parcels trains in each direction in a day, plus a number of “Long Distance” parcels trains in each direction the sets will make several trips round the layout. Some trips will be round and round trips, while other trips will be to/from the Lower fiddle yard from/to the Main fiddle yard.

When sets arrive at the Lower fiddle yard they will be positioned in the siding at the operators side of the yard so that some vans can be swapped with other vans waiting in the kickback sidings off the front siding. The aim will be as far as possible to perform the swap without manual intervention by use of the Lower fiddle yard shunter.

The Parcels Trains

0430 Paddington – Westbury
This leaves the Main fiddle yard clockwise to visit Lower Thames Yard down loop between 0510 and 0515 to drop off a GUV that will travel up the branch at 0620 on the 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough parcels when it reverses from the up relief to the Branch.
This set then travels down to the Lower fiddle yard to have its consist changed as described above.

0533 Paddington – Oxford
This leaves the Main fiddle yard clockwise to pass through the down relief line at Lower Thames Yard at 0620 and continues round the layout back to the Main fiddle yard to appear later as another working

0645 Paddington – Reading
This leaves the Main fiddle yard clockwise to visit Lower Thames Yard down loop between 0924 and 0928.
This set then travels down to the Lower fiddle yard to have its consist changed as described above.

1122 Reading – Paddington
This the first up through parcels of the day starts from the Lower fiddle yard and uses the revised consist of the 0430 train above. It visits the up relief loop at Lower Thames Yard between 1144 and 1150 and then travels anticlockwise round the layout to the Main fiddle yard to appear later as another working.

1130 Paddington - Didcot
The above 0533 train consist reappears clockwise from the Main fiddle yard and visits Lowe Thames Yard down relief line loop between 1207 and 1212.
This set then travels down to the Lower fiddle yard to have its consist changed as described above.

1155 Oxford to Paddington
This up parcels starts from the Lower fiddle yard and uses the revised consist of the 1130 train above. It visits the up relief loop at Lower Thames Yard between 1425 and 1450 and then travels anticlockwise round the layout to the Main fiddle yard to appear later as another working.

1230 West London – Didcot
The above 1122 train consist reappears clockwise from the Main fiddle yard to pass through the down relief line at Lower Thames Yard at 1454. This set then travels down to the Lower fiddle yard to have its consist changed as described above.

1633 Newbury – Kensington
This up parcels starts from the Lower fiddle yard and uses the revised consist of the 1230 train above. It passes through the up relief line at Lower Thames Yard at 1733(?) then travels anticlockwise round the layout to the Main fiddle yard to appear later as another working.

1905 Reading – Paddington
The above 1155 train consist reappears anticlockwise from the Main fiddle yard and visits Lower Thames Yard up relief line loop between 1927 and 1925 then travels anticlockwise round the layout to the Main fiddle yard to appear later as another working.

2040 Paddington – Reading
This leaves the Main fiddle yard clockwise to visit Lower Thames Yard down relief loop between 2215 and 2218 to attach a GUV that has travelled down the branch on a local passenger train.
This set then travels down to the Lower fiddle yard to have its consist changed as described above

2300 Oxford – Paddington
This up parcels starts from the Lower fiddle yard and uses the revised consist of the 2040 train above. It passes through the up relief line at Lower Thames Yard at 0015 then travels anticlockwise round the layout to the Main fiddle yard to appear later as another working, in the next day's cycle.

I think the above is enough detail for one posting, so I will leave the details of the long distance parcels workings for a later post.

Take care, be safe,
Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Hi All,
Having previously detailed the local parcels trains I intend to portray, today it is the turn of the long distance parcels.
Initially, space will probably dictate that it is sensible to cater mainly for those that used the Relief Lines at Maidenhead, and then to maybe add one or two more off the Main Lines!
So these are the initial workings I will model:-

2140 Parcels Shrewsbury to Paddington (due 0450)
This train starts from the Lower Fiddle Yard and passes anticlockwise through Lower Thames Yard on the relief line at 0401, then proceeds into the Main Fiddle Yard where it is held for a future working .(0855 Parcels Fishguard to Paddington)

0505 Parcels Paddington to Bristol
This train starts from the Main fiddle yard and passes clockwise to Lower Thames Yard on the Relief Line at 0538. It then proceeds round the layout back to the Main Fiddle Yard to await a later working..(2025 Parcels Paddington to Cardiff)

1440 Milk Empties Wood Lane to Plymouth
This train starts from the Mail Fiddle Yard and pauses in the down relief loop at Lower Thames Yard between 1546 and 1604. In reality this train paused in the Maidenhead Goods Line, but in my world Lower Thames Yard has no Goods Line! the train then moves on to the Lower Fiddle Yard where it is shunted to form an Up working.

1145 Parcels Dr. Days Junc.to Old Oak Common (due 1745)
This train starts from the Lower Fiddle Yard and passes through Lower Thames Yard on the Relief Line at 1646 before passing clockwise to the Main Fiddle Yard where it waits for a later working.

0830 Milk Whitland to Kensington
This train using the revised consist from the 1440 Milk Empties starts from the Lower Fiddle Yard , passes Lower Thames Yard at 1650 on the Relief Line and passes anticlockwise round the layout to reach the Main Fiddle Yard where it waits for the following days 1440 Milk Empties.

2025 Parcels Paddington to Cardiff
This train starts clockwise from the Main Fiddle Yard using the stock from the earlier 0505 working and passes Lower Thames Yard on the Relief Line at 2102, It then proceeds to the Lower Fiddle Yard for shunting and to wait for a later working.

0855 Parcels Fishguard to Paddington(due 2132)
This train starts from the Lower Fiddle Yard using the shunted stock from the previous days 2240 Parcels Paddington to Penzance working and passes Lower Thames Yard on the relief Line at 2046 before passing anticlockwise into the Main Fiddle Yard to await a later working. (This train reverses to form the 2137 Parcels Paddington to Penzance)

2137 Parcels Paddington to Penzance
This train starts from the Main Fiddle Yard clockwise passing through Lower Thames Yard on the Relief Line at 2224 and passes down to the Lower Fiddle Yard where it is shunted and sorted to be available for a return working.

2240 Parcels Paddington to Penzance
This train starts from the Main Fiddle Yard clockwise passing through Lower Thames Yard on the Relief Line at 2316 and passes clockwise round to the Main Fiddle Yard where it waits for a later working. (Next day)

0842 Parcels Shrewsbury to Paddington(due 2358)
This train starts from the Lower Fiddle Yard using the shunted stock from the above 2025 and arrives at Lower Thames Yard up relief Line loop at 2206 where it shunts to pick up vans until 2225 before passing anticlockwise into the Main Fiddle Yard to await a later working.

The above workings may need their times adjusting after I draw out a Timetable Graph to check the free siding capacity in the Main and Lower Fiddle Yards.

Hope you are enjoying your modelling?
Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Hi All,
Having spent two quite long posts on the Local and Long Distance Parcels around Lower Thams Yard, I thought I would finish this topic off by discussing the Diesel Parcels Vans:-

Before 1960 when there were only two Diesel Parcels Vans on the (G)WR, the only time they ventured on a regular basis through Maidenhead was on a Saturday return trip to Reading.
With the advent of the new generation of Diesel Parcels Vans they took several trips along the Thames Valley.

According to my 10th September 1962 Passenger Train Workings Paddington Station the details are as follows:-

The Unit left Southall Depot at 0235 to run an early morning trip to Hayes at 0255, returning from there at 0355, due into Paddington at 0415, ready for a 0430 departure.
This 0430 trip was to Maidenhead towing two vans.
The first, a GUV was destined for High Wycombe and replaced the one previously attached to the 0430 Paddington to Westbury Parcels which by autumn 1962 was retimed to 0418.
The second attached van was a BG for Windsor, detached at Slough, that formerly was attached to the 0530 Parcels departure.
The Diesel Parcels Van returned from Maidenhead at 0525 arriving at Paddington at 0605.

This unit took another trip along the Thames Valley, this time to Reading departing at 0715. This returned as the 0948 from Reading due back at Paddington at 1150.
The units next trip was to Colnbrook so did not trouble Maidenhead. It left Colnbrook at 1352, and arrived back at Paddington at 1439, to take out a 1500 trip to High Wycombe.

The 1500 trip to High Wycombe appears not to have a direct return to Paddington but instead returned to Southall.
It left Southall at 1955 reaching Paddington at 2012 to form a trip to Windsor leaving at 2120
and then ran empty back to Southall.

So this unit was used quite intensively round a 24 period.

If I choose to model its trips to Maidenhead and Reading, I will need to modify my 0430 Westbury Parcels.
However, a notice TT82 dated 8th October 1962 suggests that the 1500 trip to High Wycombe was short lived as it is cancelled in the notice.

I hope you are all well and staying safe?
Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Hi All,
For a change, I thought in this post, I would run through some of the trains on the High Wycombe Branch.

So image we have managed to crawl out of bed bright and early on a summers morning in 1960/2.
We manage by 06.00 to get to our line side position by the branch as it leaves the yard and we have a good view of the stretch of line up to the first overbridge.
Even if we can't hear them , we will have a good idea when the trains are coming by the fall of the down starter just in front of the overbridge or the up Home junction just opposite our position.

At 6.12 the first movement is a 61xx light engine proceeding along the branch to haul the 07.30 suburban train from Bourne End to Paddington.
We now don't have long to wait as at 06.20 the 5 vans of the Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels pass by hauled by another 61xx.

We will then have nearly an hour and a half to wait for the first train off the branch which is the above mentioned 07.30 from Bourne End.

Meanwhile, at 0638 we see our first passenger train of the day, the 06.20 Slough to High Wycombe local of 3 suburban coaches hauled by yet another Slough 61xx!
Peace then descends until 07.42 when the 07.30 from Bourne End passes. It is also a 3 coach train but whereas the earlier train was of BR non corridor stock, this is a mixture of BR and Collett coaches.

We have not long to wait for the next train and soon hear the growl of a DMU. What rattles by at 07.48, forming the 07.25 Slough to High Wycombe, is a class 121 single car DMU hauling a single ended Driving Trailer. We will see more of the 121, with and without its trailer through the day.

Next to appear, just before 08.20 is the 07.50 High Wycombe to Slough service. This is the return journey of the above 06.20 Slough to High Wycombe train.

Further 3 car, 61xx hauled trains pass at 0837 to Princes Risborough and at 0853 from Aylesbury.

After another half an hours we then get some variety as the DMU and Trailer return at 0920, followed at 0943 by the light engine 61xx off Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels heading for Slough Shed and then at 0947 we have the first freight of the day as the run from Slough to the Hinckley Yard at Oxford appears. This is a mixed train of some 15 wagons and a Toad pulled by a 56xx 0-6-2, which is finding the slope up to the overbridge a bit of a test!

Just before 1025 the Marlow Donkey, 14xx and trailer, appears on one of its runs through to Maidenhead. It returns at 1040, which has to be on time as two minutes later the pick up freight from Taplow to Thomas' siding is due through. As this is usually only some 5 empty wagons these days, it is light work if the 57xx hauling it is on song and with a keen driver it might charge after the Donkey which stops at Cookham whereas the freight did not!

Nothing much happens for the rest of the morning, just a couple more runs each way for the Donkey.

So we will pause our observations for today and pick up again starting with a couple of runs of the 121 (without trailer!) in the early afternoon, on another occasion.

I hope every one is well?
The weather here is first class-sun all day so far although the wind catches you out occasionally by still being cool.
Stay safe, and enjoy your modelling.

Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Good Afternoon All,
Had intended to post the second half of the High Wycombe Branch trains this afternoon but there will not be time.
It is our eldest granddaughters 9th birthday today. Normally we would have had a family party yesterday, but obviously that is not possible.

So we had to make do with a couple of 6 way Zoom sessions over lunch today.

Not sure her presents are going to help with the lockdown situation as both sets of Grandparents clubbed together to buy her a Hover Board and her parents bought her a new Bike!
Just hoping that by the time of our grandson's (her brother) birthday on 31st August we will be able to have a bigger than usual outside Party!!

In a while got to do our phone calls to other relatives, particularly the older ones, who don't have the technology to use Zoom.

So, take care, stay safe, and keep modelling!
Cheers
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Hi All,
Thought today I would showcase my three favourite parcels trains on the early 1960s WR Main linee:-
1) 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels (reversing at Maidenhead 0553-0620) The makeup of the train is as follows:
Real train My Model a) Reading to Maidenhead Engine e Engine Vans Maidenhead 2 Vans Maidenhead Vans High Wycombe Van High Wycombe Vans Aylesbury Van Aylesbury Van (Milk in Churns) Van (Milk in Churns) (Chippenham – Aylesbury) (Chippenham – Aylesbury) Brake Van Aylesbury Brake Van Aylesbury b) Maidenhead onwards Engine Engine Engine Brake Van Aylesbury Brake Van Aylesbury Van (Milk in Churns) Van (Milk in Churns) (Chippenham – Aylesbury) (Chippenham – Aylesbury) Vans Aylesbury Van Aylesbury Vans High Wycombe Van High Wycombe GUV Paddington – High Wycombe GUV Paddington - High Wycombe. .

2) 0720 Reading to Slough Fish (calling at Maidenhead (0753-0810) Brake Van (Oxford-Slough) Brake Van (Oxford-Slough) Vans (Maidenhead ) 2 vans (Maidenhead) Vans (Taplow) Van (Taplow) Vans (Slough) 2 (Vans Slough)

3) 2010 Maidenhead to Reading Parcels (W) GUV (Crewe) (W) GUV (Crewe) (V) Van (Didcot) (V) Van (Didcot) (V) Brake Van (Reading) (V) Brake Van (Reading) (G) Van (Empty Churns) (G) Van (Empty Churns) . Chippenham Chippenham
Notes:- (G) Off 1642 Aylesbury to Maidenhead (V) Off 1825 Aylesbury to Maidenhead (W) Off 1850 High Wycombe to Maidenhead

• For my parcels formations I am using the following:-
• Van = long wheelbase vans, a mixture of Fruit D, CCTs (LMR/LNER), SR PMVs etc. plus a substitute of a 10ft wheelbase XP rated vacuum goods van.
• Van (Churns/ empty churns)= Syphon G
• Brake Van = LMS or BR origin BG
• For my Fish train vans I have a set of 5 varied LNER/BR LWB fish vans and a Hawkesworth BG.

Hope the above comes out readable?
Keep smiling, enjoy your modeling!
Best regards
Paul