Perhaps Reverend Farnsworth (aka: Roger) can help me this one. I am trying to find an image of these stone (granite?) trackways upon which wagons were drawn by ponies from mineral pits (coal? Tin?), particularly in the region of Devonshire.
My sister and I were chatting about this shared memory, and I wanted to show her a picture, but I cannot find one. Perhaps my terminology is wrong?
In any event, I recall these track ways predated railways by a good century or two, and were the template for railways to come.
Any help would be most appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Horse drawn collier trackways question.
Re: Horse drawn collier trackways question.
Early Railways are a fascinating area of study.
The granite railways were a particular feature of mountainous districts such as Dartmoor, but in areas where hard stone was not so easy to obtain railways made of timber were used instead. The coal mining districts especially chose timber for their rails, but discovered that if a strip of iron was fastened on top the wagons were easier to pull. It was then only a small step to replace timber by iron.
The late M.J.T. Lewis made a particular study of these and published a number of books and articles, although I don't know if these are still available.
One of the early lines was built from Causey to the river Tyne near Gateshead in County Durham. The line ran down a slope to the river and waggons were hauled by a rope on the incline, and by horses on the level bits. Some of the route is now the home of the Tanfield Railway.
This is a replica of one of the waggons.
The granite railways were a particular feature of mountainous districts such as Dartmoor, but in areas where hard stone was not so easy to obtain railways made of timber were used instead. The coal mining districts especially chose timber for their rails, but discovered that if a strip of iron was fastened on top the wagons were easier to pull. It was then only a small step to replace timber by iron.
The late M.J.T. Lewis made a particular study of these and published a number of books and articles, although I don't know if these are still available.
One of the early lines was built from Causey to the river Tyne near Gateshead in County Durham. The line ran down a slope to the river and waggons were hauled by a rope on the incline, and by horses on the level bits. Some of the route is now the home of the Tanfield Railway.
This is a replica of one of the waggons.
LC&DR says South for Sunshine
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Re: Horse drawn collier trackways question.
Many horse drawn narrow gauge lines were simply strips of metal that were dropped into chisel cuts into the sleepers and a wooden wedge would hold them in.
It was common to pick up and move track to where it was needed.
Horses for many small railway networks were often easier to use then locomotives as horses could pull waggons up fairly steel inclines (Up to a 1 in 4 which is 25%) and as well as that horses don't get trapped in sidings which is easier for shunting. Even on standard gauge lines horses were kept for shunting in some areas right up to the 1950's just because they were easier in confined spaces and often quicker too for small shunting operations. Going back to the 1920's and before and it was rare to see a locomotive shunting unless it was a larger yard as horses did most of the work.
I recently heard that when horses pulled canal barges, a single shire horse would pull 100 tonnes on the water. That is an incredible amount if one thinks about it. Not sure how much they could pull on rails.
To add to the interest, double flanged wheels were used for one reason. The wheels were loose on their axles so they could move sideways, and therefore the track did not need to have a precise gauge. Many of the lines that were used with horses would be subject to the gauge widening if a horse stood on it or something else heavy, so one can see why some lightly layed track using metal bars turned to the upright position could lean and widen the gauge. Double flanged wheels could cope with this.
And finally, waggons were usually made no larger then the two tonne types. Three tonne types were experinmented with but they were rarely used and for two reasons.
In the early years where plateways were common, three ton waggons would break the plates more easily so they stayed with the two tonne types.
The second more important reason for most lines was that a two tonne waggon could be handled and pushed easily by a single person while the three ton types needed two people to push. Hence two tonne waggons were extremely popular in the various industries and the three tonne types or heavier were rare. They simply were not so practical in daily use.
It was common to pick up and move track to where it was needed.
Horses for many small railway networks were often easier to use then locomotives as horses could pull waggons up fairly steel inclines (Up to a 1 in 4 which is 25%) and as well as that horses don't get trapped in sidings which is easier for shunting. Even on standard gauge lines horses were kept for shunting in some areas right up to the 1950's just because they were easier in confined spaces and often quicker too for small shunting operations. Going back to the 1920's and before and it was rare to see a locomotive shunting unless it was a larger yard as horses did most of the work.
I recently heard that when horses pulled canal barges, a single shire horse would pull 100 tonnes on the water. That is an incredible amount if one thinks about it. Not sure how much they could pull on rails.
To add to the interest, double flanged wheels were used for one reason. The wheels were loose on their axles so they could move sideways, and therefore the track did not need to have a precise gauge. Many of the lines that were used with horses would be subject to the gauge widening if a horse stood on it or something else heavy, so one can see why some lightly layed track using metal bars turned to the upright position could lean and widen the gauge. Double flanged wheels could cope with this.
And finally, waggons were usually made no larger then the two tonne types. Three tonne types were experinmented with but they were rarely used and for two reasons.
In the early years where plateways were common, three ton waggons would break the plates more easily so they stayed with the two tonne types.
The second more important reason for most lines was that a two tonne waggon could be handled and pushed easily by a single person while the three ton types needed two people to push. Hence two tonne waggons were extremely popular in the various industries and the three tonne types or heavier were rare. They simply were not so practical in daily use.
Budget modelling in 0-16.5...
Re: Horse drawn collier trackways question.
Perversely there was a narrow gauge line at a cement works in Kent at a place called Swanscombe where the wheel flanges OUTSIDE the rails . So far as I know this was unique. Originally the waggons were horse drawn but later they obtained a fleet of steam locomotives, many of which were of the geared traction engine type. Before World War 2 the cement company rebuilt their railway system replacing the narrow gauge with Standard gauge arranged in a conventional manner with inside flanges.
LC&DR says South for Sunshine
Re: Horse drawn collier trackways question.
Thank you all, a most considered and interesting set of replies. Yes, this would be thing that
I saw back in '66/'67. I shall forward the link to my sister at the next opportunity. Also, of great interest was the photo of the two tonne wagon, so now I have the idea of how it was used. I'd never seen that bit.
The next addition to Henley will be a bit of antique track way, well overgrown. A bit of modelers
clay should do the trick!
Could anyone speculate as to the type of dray horse used for the purpose? As sister and I nattered on, we had ridden on these viscous Shetlands, and wondered if they were descended from the drays used on the track way. Perhaps a larger, sturdier breed, like a Clydesdale?
I do recall, that one of the impetuses for the steam drawn train was the Napoleonic wars, which had driven the price of fodder to new heights.
Again, many thanks for solving the puzzle for me.
I saw back in '66/'67. I shall forward the link to my sister at the next opportunity. Also, of great interest was the photo of the two tonne wagon, so now I have the idea of how it was used. I'd never seen that bit.
The next addition to Henley will be a bit of antique track way, well overgrown. A bit of modelers
clay should do the trick!
Could anyone speculate as to the type of dray horse used for the purpose? As sister and I nattered on, we had ridden on these viscous Shetlands, and wondered if they were descended from the drays used on the track way. Perhaps a larger, sturdier breed, like a Clydesdale?
I do recall, that one of the impetuses for the steam drawn train was the Napoleonic wars, which had driven the price of fodder to new heights.
Again, many thanks for solving the puzzle for me.
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