Looking to pick your knowledge and wealth of experience please
Re doing my DCC layout for what seems to be the 100th time, but this time going to do things right , going to fit point motors and switches but as I am a bit of a cluts with electrics and this kind of stuff looking for your suggestions on the best point motors to use, the easiest way to wire up multiple points so that can control them from one place and can easily add more as i go along.
I originally used a mix of Peco solenoid motors in the fiddle yard and Cobalt Digital iP's on the scenic part of the layout - I have very recently replaced all (7) Peco motors with Cobalts. The Peco's were wired for toggle switch (on-off-on sprung to centre) operation, whereas the Cobalts were wired for both toggle and digital operation. I run DCC with a Hornby Elite controller, and the Cobalts, which have an in-built decoder were programmed using the Elite in the normal way. At the end of the day, toggle switch is quicker in operation, but does usually mean miles of wire.
I have recently removed all of the toggle switches and all points now operate from the Elite - two wires from track to point motor - very simple. The Cobalts are not cheap, but cost can be reduced by buying a box of six or twelve and you do not require anything else. They have nine (??) contacts, so frog polarity is easy to set-up, and I even have Dapol signals which operate via the point motor. At the end of the day the choice is down to you, but any other questions - ask away. Sorry for the late reply. BB
Hi
Budget? This is important as you can spend a little or a lot on a point motor!
A quick look at the main types...
1) Solenoid motors such as those from Peco PL-10 or surface PL-11, Hornby R8014 or surface R8243, Similar surface mounting from Gaugemaster, Rails of Sheffield etc. Or the Gaugemaster Seep PM range. These all tend to be priced roughly between £7 and sub £15 each.
2) Then there are electric motor driven point motors offering slow motion point activation, such as the Tortoise or the DCC Concepts Cobalt range. Price around £20 ish each for an analogue motor.
3) Then comes Servos. Slow motion point actuation. Analogue servos such as the SG90 can be obtained for around £3.00 each BUT they need a suitable mount (Dingo mounts are one) so add a further £7.00 then you need some sort of electronics to operate the Servos and set their end stop positions around £5.00 ish but kits are sold that offer 4 or more servo outputs and can be obtained for as little as £5.50 (MERG Kits). So an average of around £12 per servo
Add to all this the cost of panel switches and for solenoids ideally a Capacitor Discharge Unit (CDU) which helps overcome a sticky motor and prevents motor coil burnout.
Solenoids (Cat 1 above) should be operated by either Passing contact levers such as the Peco PL-26 or Hornby R044 Black lever (This comes with a warning, see further) Or Non locking sprung to centre Off toggle switches often referred to as (On)-Off-(On) types where the bracketed On cant remain in that position when the switches lever is released. Or two press to make non locking push buttons per point motor or even Stud and Probe.
Motors in Cat 2 tend to be operated by On/On Double Pole toggle switches which swap polarity to the motor but remain in their On positions.
Motors in Cat 3 tend to be operated by On/Off Single Pole toggle switches connecting to the control board for the servo.
Warning Note: The Hornby R044 Black lever is not ideally suited to be used with a CDU due to its rather old fashioned switching design. The Peco PL-26 is fine though.
Wire... I recommend for Solenoids using 16/0.2mm equipment wire as a minimum size throughout. For Slow motion or servos then 7/0.2mm equipment wire is fine.
Personally, I would not use the DCC system to operate any sort of point motor, unless you're planning on computer control. DCC via a suitable Accessory decoder or a DCC decoder fitted motor is very much a "Button pressing" process! i.e. You need to know the point number, enter it then press Enter, then usually select 1 or 2 to move the motor one way or the other followed by another Enter button press. IMO far to many actions needed for one movement!
I would also opt for a non-DCC alternative just to avoid un-neccessary cost.
I tended to use a stud and probe method instead of switches for solenoid point control because it was not only cheaper, but I found it the quickest and simpliest method to use. (I put little bolts on a control panel, and I drew the track sections on a control panel board, and the bolts acted as the "Stud" part and the probe was a large nail I soldered the "Probe" wire onto which then acted as a probe. I also had DC track section switches with each track section using a different colour. It was all nice and simple to use. (DCC users do not need these track section switches added).
These days though, I prefer to control my points through mechanical means, as I prefer the simplest "Hands on" approach via some sort of lever, but that is me!
(I spent time working on the railway and a lot of it was all "Hands on" when it came to working on trains, so the "Hands on" part reminds me of my time working. In the past before I took a railway job, I used to not want a hands on approach, but since having had a railway job in the past, the character of the railway comes through when one works ones models in a manual way, but each person needs to work out what they want for thrmselves!)
Last edited by Mountain Goat on Wed Oct 23, 2024 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
station master wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:55 am
Morning all,
Looking to pick your knowledge and wealth of experience please
Re doing my DCC layout for what seems to be the 100th time, but this time going to do things right , going to fit point motors and switches but as I am a bit of a cluts with electrics and this kind of stuff looking for your suggestions on the best point motors to use, the easiest way to wire up multiple points so that can control them from one place and can easily add more as i go along.
All suggestions and comments greatly appreciated
This is quite a big subject to answer in a thread with whole chapters in model railway books devoted to the various systems. So far I have only used solenoid motors and stud and probe to switch points even though I have a DCC system. My choice of stud and probe is because it is easy quick and relatively cheap using a control panel with a diagram of the points layout. The big disadvantage is that without some form of indicators you have no idea how the points are set. With the stall motors like the cobalts and tortoise where you use a toggle switch then the switch position is an indicator. Because solenoids require a momentary pulse normal toggle switches would simply burn them out. You can use momentary centre off toggle switches to switch points, pushing the switch in the direction you want to move the point momentarily and releasing it to allow it to spring back to the centre off position. One thing you will need for solenoids is a CDU (Capacitor Discharge Unit) to give the necessary Ooooomph especially if you want to move several points at a time. One method for solenoids where you can use normal toggle switches is by having the CDU connected via a momentary push switch. This enables you to set the switches in the direction the points need setting and once set the push button is used to connect the CDU momentarily to shift the points however shift too many points at once and there might not be enough in the CDU to complete the task.
With DCC a whole number of possibilities open up and I will on my next layout be using computer control but this by far is the most complex and expensive approach. DCC requires decoders either as accessory decoders or point motors with built in decoders such as some of the cobalts of course both approaches add considerable complexity and expense. How easy it is to use depends on your chosen DCC system if it requires you to type in decoder addresses like my Lenz system then it becomes tiresome after a while. The use of apps such as Touch Cab on either a phone or tablet can overcome the latter but requires a WiFi connection to your system.
There you have it in a nutshell, but I would really read up a lot about it and I can thoroughly recommend Brian’s books and I would suggest a visit to his website which takes a lot out of his books would be useful to get a more detailed overview and might help you to decide which way to jump.
For cost effectiveness on point motors, I used the Rails of Sheffield servos (similar to the Peco ones).
These are available in 5 packs for £28, which is as cheap as you are likely to find such things.
You will then need a CDU .. you can find far better ones on ebay than the Hornby and Peco ones, for around a tenner+ postage, add another tenner or so for 16v 2+ amp PSU, and then the expensive bit ... switches ! I went for Peco as I wanted that style, but there are other options that could cost less.
Then just add wire !
I should add, I have yet to install the point motors
DCC and point control... OK if someone has it set up visually on ones computer, but... A perfect example is an elderly lady who runs a G scale garden railway that I know at a guest house. Due to her insisting on DCC sounds, as she has a "Birthday train" which is very novel, BUT the railway has DCC point control, and every time she wants to run trains, she has to have volunteers in the form of guests to go to certain positions on her railway to manually change the points!
Had the points been set up on DC instead, or maybe the whole railway, she would not have had so many issues. (She could always have an isolated length of DCC track to run her birthday train on special occasions if she wanted it).
Yes, DCC is great, but so is DC, and for certain uses DC is actually better. Other uses DCC comes into its own, and it is about personal preference.
When I see people struggling with one system or another, where there is a simpler alternative I will suggest it just to make life easier, as our trains are meant to be fun!
, going to fit point motors and switches but as I am a bit of a cluts with electrics and this kind of stuff looking for your suggestions on the best point motors to use, the easiest way to wire up multiple points so that can control them from one place and can easily add more as i go along.
