Point wiring

[RAF96]

Be aware that having sorted out wiring your Hornby point motors and now thinking of using Peco motors that they use the same 3 colours but for the sake of elec-trickery they connect them in a different order. Red stays red but black and green need to be swapped over.

[stonesfan]

Hiya

Yes to the previous posting. The green wire is the one I run directly to the CDU.

Have installed 2 ( out of 6 bought) peco pl11 points today. One seems to be working fine, the other not quite throwing in one direction.

Couple of questions:

1) Just how true aligned do these solenoids have to be out of interest?!

2) Should the throw bar move left and right on every consecutive actuation? A couple of my point solenoids throw in one direction but whilst they click in the other, they tend to return to central. This is when simply tested away from the track.

Using a 16V AC supply from my Gaugemaster controller and a 2nd hand Gaugemaster CDU I recently bought from eBay. Have ordered another brand new one from Amazon (different brand) just to ensure my CDU isn't playing up. Can always return if not needed.

Cheers again

[Steve M]

For the initial installation the tie bar and rails need to be set centrally in the point - use plastic shims to hold against the spring resistance. The solenoid also needs the pin to be central in it's travel to match the tie bar.
It helps not to screw the motor too tight to the underside of the baseboard.

[Tricky Dicky]

Couple of questions:

1) Just how true aligned do these solenoids have to be out of interest?!

2) Should the throw bar move left and right on every consecutive actuation? A couple of my point solenoids throw in one direction but whilst they click in the other, they tend to return to central. This is when simply tested away from the track.

As SteveM has pointed out alignment is critical and is the most likely cause but one of your comments above poses the possibility that the point spring is missing. Solenoid motors rely on the spring to hold the switch rails in place whereas stall motors do not require the spring as they draw a small current that keeps the switch rails in place.

Richard

[Brian]

Surface mounting PL-11 solenoid motors must not be pulled down too tightly onto the baseboard. Binding will cause poor operation.
To check your one that's not throwing correctly I would do the following..... Remove motor from the baseboard and then with the motor not connected to a point and in free air test its operation over and back. It should "Pop" over each way with each movement of the operating switch or lever. Please allow a couple of seconds to lapse between each switch operation to allow the CDU to fully recharge. Assuming it does move as expected carefully refit the motor to the point and ensure it is not being pulled down to tightly. Use some card packing under the motor if need be. Retest and it should work.
Other things to ensure are that the wiring to the point is of sufficient wire size. Here I recommend 16/0.2mm (0.5mm² or 20AWG) equipment wire be the minimum size used throughout. Also, the input power to the CDU should be at least 16 volts AC or 19 to 21 volts DC.

Check the point switch blades are held against the outer stock rail on each side to prove the over centre spring is working. If they are not held under spring tension the spring is either missing / come out of its slot or hole in the tie (stretcher) bar or it has broken. If needed Peco can supply spare springs if contacted.

[stonesfan]

Hi All

Thanks for the responses. As most have suspected, the issue must surely be with alignment. I managed to rule out anything electrical earlier by doing a comprehensive test of 5 point solenoids. All points are brand new and have no issues with the springs either.

Used both CDU's, each with very similar results. The Gaugemaster CDU definitely requires less 'recovery' between discharges. The RK CDU only cost £10 but does have a status LED that informs you when the unit is fully charged. Using a multimeter across the outputs both charge to around 23v DC. One thing I did discover was the initial throw often produced a 'click' rather than a throw. From here on they operated fine.

Have a speeded up short video here of my findings.

https://youtu.be/_eAYzXTuLQM?si=8fbBMtORcqpCK6J-

Have one set operating fine, so will have to carefully place and secure the remaining 5 PL-11s. I think whoever said don't pin them down too hard was on to something. That may have been my undoing!

Will report back with good news hopefully.

Cheers

[stonesfan]

Hi All

What is the situation with 'Y' points? Just a case of lining the motor up as best you can?

Also, can I mount a point motor on the curved side of a peco point? There's a couple of instances where space is a bit tight to mount on the straight section.

Thanks

[Tricky Dicky]

Hi All

What is the situation with 'Y' points? Just a case of lining the motor up as best you can?

Also, can I mount a point motor on the curved side of a peco point? There's a couple of instances where space is a bit tight to mount on the straight section.

Thanks

Alignment is key wherever you place the point motor. For fitting solenoids below the baseboard get the two switch rails equally spaced away from the stock rails wedging them if necessary to find where to drill the centre hole. To help align the motor below push the tie bar to each extremity and drill a small hole at each end, when you turn the board over you should end up with a row of three holes all in alignment with the tie bar. That will give you a centre line to work to. The small holes will eventually be covered in ballast and it goes without saying all holes need to be drilled perpendicular.

Richard

[Steve M]

Hi All

What is the situation with 'Y' points? Just a case of lining the motor up as best you can?

Also, can I mount a point motor on the curved side of a peco point? There's a couple of instances where space is a bit tight to mount on the straight section.

Thanks

Alignment is key wherever you place the point motor. For fitting solenoids below the baseboard get the two switch rails equally spaced away from the stock rails wedging them if necessary to find where to drill the centre hole. To help align the motor below push the tie bar to each extremity and drill a small hole at each end, when you turn the board over you should end up with a row of three holes all in alignment with the tie bar. That will give you a centre line to work to. The small holes will eventually be covered in ballast and it goes without saying all holes need to be drilled perpendicular.

Richard

I also found it useful to hold the motor in place with a bulldog clip on the pin as it sticks through the tie bar. It stops it from falling leaving both hands free to get the alignment correct and the screws in place.

[Brian]

The problem with surface mounting motors when on the curved side of the point is overhang of stock travelling over the point and anything hanging below chassis line - battery boxes etc can catch on the motors top or its end and derail the stock. Hence the recommendation to fit surface motors on the straight side.

Y points present their own problems as of course there is no straight side! If the track leading into the Y points single end is straight then it might be possible to mount the surface motor the other way around, so as its length is along the end of the Y point and out onto the straight section. But if the Y is on a curve then then fit the motor the same way as just stated but on the outside of the approach curve. TBH under baseboard is best though!