Model Railway Forum

As Steve says I have been testing this for a long time.
Power supplies, whilst whacking your DC controller up to max was the initial quick way to get going investigation has found that many DC controllers are affecting the decoders, particularly sound decoders. This is due to the PWM output frequency which as stated is adjustable in HM6K app and even then it was found that a decoder fitted loco could misbehave with certain frequencies set. Low frequencies being worse than high.
Hence current advice is to pull the analogue controller out of the loop if PWM and connect the PSU direct to the track or bus using the adapter cable. Obviously as different PSUs have different output voltages they also have different size jack plugs so more than one adapter cable will be required, either that or deploy some adaptive engineering (modelling skills) at user level. E.g. the adapter cable two prong plug will fit a suitable choc-block terminal strip, then multi-connections to the track or bus.
Also obvious is the fact that a weedy 12v or 15v 1-amp PSU isn’t going to run many locos, so the obvious starting point is the 15v 4-amp unit and adapter cable bundle, if DCC power is not already being used. If DCC is being used then adding a dongle to a suitable controller extends control of legacy decoder from the app, else direct from their controller in parallel with the app. Some testing has been done with ‘alien’ controllers and Xpressnet but Hornby doesn’t have one of every make, so some work has been theoretical. I have some info about this.
At present the app is limited to apple and android devices. Windows, Linux, etc would require a touch screen and defeats the object of the app being ‘mobile’.
Any other questions feel free to ask.

What is the short circuit or overload controls on this system ? Does it measure load current with feedback to the App to allow control over the number of locos running on a layout ?

Have Hornby developed a load sense module ?

The short circuit protection is provided by the device providing the power to the track, be it a DCC controller, a mains power supply direct to the track, some form of circuit breaker, or even a battery.
Each decoder has internal overload protection for its motor circuit but not for function outputs, these must be catered for by the user if say adding lights or some other decoder load, much like any other decoder.
There is a stop layout button in the app but this simply sends an All Stop command. There is no way the app can chop external power to the track, especially a direct wired supply. I must caution that although all Hornby PSUs have adequate overload and short protection by way of voltage drop, current limiting or similar, if using any other make PSU then it is the users responsibility to check this protection is provided and adequate as it could affect warranty of the Hornby kit and even compromise basic layout safety.
I do not understand what you mean by a load sense module so I cannot comment.

Most DCC Controllers have (or should have) fast detection of short circuit to protect layout and locos. This system does not. To rely on the PSU is not sufficient.
There is no 'Load sense' either i.e. means of monitoring current which is definitely required (or at least an advantage) in running a layout.

As far as I am concerned and many other serious users, these are major drawbacks to this system.

Therefore, you really do need a conventional DCC Controller to power and provide basic layout safety, which means this HM7000 should NOT be used as a stand alone system.

I do see the advantage in being able to easily load sound files and the de-cluttering the use of CVs on this system, however that is not a great deal in itself.
The ability of the App to run on many Android phones is yet to be demonstrated also.

IMHO I believe criticism and opinions should be withheld as nothing from the new system is as yet available to the public.

However, Hornby have now started to despatch items from the range (mine arrive this afternoon) so it is reasonable to deduce that the app or an early version will be released very soon.

It is also fair to assume that as with any app these days, having a compatible tablet or phone will be critical.
This will undoubtedly throw up issues for some.

Billc wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:23 am Most DCC Controllers have (or should have) fast detection of short circuit to protect layout and locos. This system does not. To rely on the PSU is not sufficient.
There is no 'Load sense' either i.e. means of monitoring current which is definitely required (or at least an advantage) in running a layout.

As far as I am concerned and many other serious users, these are major drawbacks to this system.

Therefore, you really do need a conventional DCC Controller to power and provide basic layout safety, which means this HM7000 should NOT be used as a stand alone system.

I do see the advantage in being able to easily load sound files and the de-cluttering the use of CVs on this system, however that is not a great deal in itself.
The ability of the App to run on many Android phones is yet to be demonstrated also.

Mostly cod’s-wallop in my opinion.
How can an over the air system control an external device against overload or short. As stated all Hornby PSUs and DCC controllers provide adequate protection. If you use alien kit then that responsibility falls on your head.
You say a load sensor is definitely required or it’s an advantage - make your mind up, it is either essential or not.
You are correct on one point - the app has yet to be proven on many android phones - however a pundit on RM Web assures readers that all android phones for the last umpteen ump years have used the same system so in his opinion any app will work on any android phone so it seems we are good.

Please, before giving comments like 'cods-wallop' have the kindness to understand my point.

An over the air system can control an external device against short or overload.
I know because I made one that does !
It is a case of the BT device sending back messages to the App i.e load current
When a set limit in the App is met, it sends a signal to shut down the power.

There is no doubt the absence of such a control in the HM7000 will be a problem for many users.

To solve this for Hornby, they could design a current monitor with BT comms to the App.

BTW Something can be 'essential' to some applications or 'an advantage' to others - there is no contradiction there.

Let me reiterate that Hornby power supplies are adequately self protecting and will go into control mode is shorted or otherwise overloaded. They have tested their own kit and even some alien kit such as laptop supplies examples of which have shown to provide up to double their rated output before killing the test kit. The Hornby system manual has a warning in red text that if you power the system using alien kit then be it upon your own head.
As such there is no need for any load sensing box as their system using their kit works as designed.

Hornby just proved my point, with that message in red.
Also, why should users be tied to Hornby PSUs at £60 each ?
More concerning is, users will have no idea of current load on any layout - just a poorly designed concept !

I do look forward to seeing the App when it appears !

Sorry Bilic, but I cannot agree.

Hornby have developed a range of products that are tested and compatible with each other. To add additional functionality and components at extra cost just in case someone wants to save a few quid on a cheap PSU with unknown providence would be ridiculous. It would add cost which would undoubtedly be passed on to the consumer negating the ‘savings’ from an independent PSU.

Or to put it another way, I run a diesel car with the manufacturer recommending a particular fuel. But to save a few pennies I’ll chuck in some old chip fat. No surprise that my car warranty doesn’t cover any damage that may result.