Lower Thames Yard

[Tallpaul70]

Hi All,
No modelling tales or Photos today, as I had a number of household/garden jobs to get through.

So instead, this afternoon have been doing some research, trying to solve my own problem of not having any pics of the 2010 Maidenhead to Reading Parcels or the inbound 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels.

No luck yet, so any thoughts from readers would be appreciated.
The vans moved on in the morning to Aylesbury, and then returned in ones and twos on the afternoon Aylesbury /High Wycombe to Maidenhead or Slough passenger trains, so any views of parcels vans on these movements or at these locations would be useful?

Many thanks
Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Good Afternoon, One and All,
As I am still sorting out the models for my consist of the morning Thomas and Green's Paper Mill pick up, I thought I would ease us from the past Parcels Train postings to the subject of Freight trains on the High Wycombe Branch by giving a quick run down of the freight trains in 1960/2.

On the face of it the Freight WTT for the branch looks simple, four trains in each direction. But when you start to look at the detail you realise that there are only two straight forward out and back trips and even these have their unusual features:-

So starting with our morning Thomas and Green's trip, this was, I think a very variable train. It could be lengthy if including 25 off 5 plank opens from Brentford Dock loaded with imported grass, but these seem to have been infrequent, or just a few empty vans for loading the mills writing paper output. in between it could include China Clay, machine parts, lubricants, and possibly consignments for Bourne End or Marlow, of which possibly the most interesting might be timber for the timber mill at Marlow. But to me the most interesting aspect of this train was the way that getting back to Maidenhead, just after 14.30, with less than 10 minutes to run to its finish at Taplow, it spent 8 minutes changing its loco for the one that had been shunting at Maidenhead since 0930 that morning!

The other out and back pick up, known locally as the Loudwater Goods (although it ran to High Wycombe!), also involved a loco change, and also some toing and froing between Loudwater and Wooburn Green for shunting!
The loco change occurred at High Wycombe, where the train loco was swapped with the High Wycombe Shunter, which on Mondays arrived LE from Slough around 0400, and on other days spent 24 hours at High Wycombe, arriving on one day's Loudwater Goods, and returning to Slough on the next day's Loudwater Goods!
The Loco had already had a crew change at Bourne End as it had started the day LE from Slough around 0500, to shunt at Taplow,

Next we come to the first outward bound freight wehich ran from Slough to Hinksey yard via High Wycombe and Thame. This was an all day trip, and crews were I think swapped with the next train we will look at a Hinksey to Taplow at Princes Risborough.

The Hinksey to Slough freight left at 0930, reached Princes Risborough via Thame around 1200, left there around 1330 getting to Slough around 1630.

Finally there were two further trains one in each direction, which had little in common apart from their evening running.

The outbound train left Slough at 2030 for Oxley Yard, via High Wycombe and Banbury, by far the longest run for a High Wycombe branch train. I am still investigating its return trip:- A possibility is the 0930 Oxley Yard to Moreton Cutting Yard which arrived via Oxford and Didcot at 1615. I have now to find a train from Moreton Yard to Slough.

The final train is the Aylesbury to Paddington via the High Wycombe Branch. This appears to be the return trip for an Old Oak Loco that left Paddington in the early morning for Aylesbury via the GW&GC line, and spent the day shunting at Aylesbury!

So, we see from the above, that interestingly, for a Branch Line Freight timetable, we need 8 Locos for the 8 trains!

There will be more on each of these trains over the next few posts.

Keep well, Stay safe,
Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Apologies All,
I had just written but not posted, a post for today, when my Laptop decided to throw a wobbly and lock up!
Think it is ok now, but having once lost all the content of my post, I am loath to risk the same again!

So, I will put off this posting until tomorrow, when I will pick up the implications for my model of my comment yesterday about needing 8 locos for the 8 freight trains on the High Wycombe Branch.

Take care, stay safe,
Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Good afternoon to you all,

It is funny how off the cuff comments can bring you trouble!

At the end of Friday’s posting, I commented that the 8 freight trains along the High Wycombe branch required 8 locos to run them, and that this was unusual for a branch line.
Thinking about this later, I realised that while in modelling terms 8 locos was quite a lot for the freight service on a small layout such as Lower Thames Goods Shed, far worse in terms of space would be 8 consists for these services. This could require a total of 70 wagons.

So the solution I am working with, at present, is to have a number of sets of wagons, with each wagon in the set permanently connected to the next, and normal couplings (in my case Kadees) just on thy outer ends of each set.
Four of the trains would have two sets plus a toad, the other four, the two return locals, would have just one plus a toad.

The first version I have planned has 6 off 5 wagon sets, a total of 30 wagons:-

Thus the morning Slough to Hinksey freight could have sets 1 and 2, and the morning pick up to Thomas & Green’s set 3.
The morning Hinksey to Slough, which doesn’t get to Slough until 16.30 would have sets 4 and 5.
Before that the returning Thomas & Green’s would have set 1, and the outbound Taplow to High Wycombe set 6, the latter returning with set 2.
This leaves the evening Slough to Oxley with sets 5 and 1, and the evening Aylesbury to Paddington with sets 3 and 6.

So this plan reduces the wagon requirement from 70 wagons to 30, but with the compromises that more than the usual number of wagons would make the return trip in a day, and a few would be seen 3 times!
I think this is manageable provided none of the wagons doing 3 trips are of an unusual design or an outstanding livery!

It might be sensible that any open wagons doing several trips are fitted with removable loads.

Another improvement could be to allow for shunting of the Goods Shed area by having one set being individual wagons, which would change during a visit to the goods shed.

I will be thinking round this over the next few days, and update you accordingly.

Take care, stay safe,
Happy modelling,
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Good Afternoon fellow modellers,
Having thought through the wagon plan I posted a couple of days ago, the revised version I have come up with has 8 off 5 wagon sets, a total of 40 wagons:-

In this version the morning Slough to Hinksey freight still has sets 1 and 2, and the morning pick up to Thomas & Green’s set 3.
The morning Hinksey to Slough, which doesn’t get to Slough until 16.30 would now have sets 4 and 2.
Before that the returning Thomas & Green’s would have set 7, and the outbound Taplow to High Wycombe set 5, the latter returning with set 2.
This leaves the evening Slough to Oxley with sets 4 and 6, and the evening Aylesbury to Paddington with sets 5 and 1.

Set 8 would start in the fiddle yard and in the morning run a clockwise trip to the Goods Shed Yard where it swaps with set 5 left there the previous evening, and then later it swaps again with set 5 on the evening Aylesbury to Slough.

So under this scheme, both the outward and the return Thomas and Green trips have sets that are not used again. This is a more accurate depiction of this freight which tended to have its own peculiar consists to service the paper mill’s needs.

Sets 5 and 8 will have individually Kadees on each wagon so that they can be shunted in the Goods Shed Yard, and extra wagons sitting in that yard introduced into the consists to give some variety.

While this version uses more wagons, the only problem that gives me is that it would probably make sense to try to include an extra siding in the fiddle yard to accommodate two more wagon sets.

Sometime in the next couple of days I will finalise and photo set three for the outbound Thomas and Green’s pick up, followed later by photos of the other wagon sets.

Hope you are all well,
Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Hi All,
Just a quick post today to correct an error in my Monday's post, by which set 2 made 3 runs and set 6 only one!

I should have said:-
In this version the morning Slough to Hinksey freight still has sets 1 and 2, and the morning pick up to Thomas & Green’s set 3.
But the morning Hinksey to Slough, which doesn’t get to Slough until 16.30 would now have sets 4 and 6.
Before that the returning Thomas & Green’s would have set 7, and the outbound Taplow to High Wycombe set 5, the latter returning with set 1.
This leaves the evening Slough to Oxley with sets 4 and 6, and the evening Aylesbury to Paddington with sets 5 and 2.

This now gives each set apart from set 3 and set 7 an out and a return trip, but it does mean that two trains, one in and one out, both have sets 4 and 6.

Can anyone see a way round this without having more sets?

Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Everyone warm enough?
Should not grumble though, we need this weather to cheer us up.

Started today on a high, found a weathered (or should I say dirtied?) Dapol blue spot Insulated fish van that I had mislaid. I really wanted it to include in my shots of the morning Fish Train last week, but ended up showing just the shorter Lower Thames Gods Shed layout version.

I had been thinking that if I was now going to use 8 sets of wagons I ought to have more storage sidings in the fiddle yard.
Space on the layout as currently sized is tight, but I can ad an extra inch or so to the depth of the layout without any problems as nothing is yet cut to final size, drilled, or screwed together!
So while I was ahead, I thought I would have a go at adding an extra 1.5 inches and an extra siding into the Goods Shed Layout fiddle yard for set 8.
This didn't go so well as while widening the layout allowed an extra track, the siding in the centre of the layout came out too short for comfort. So I have now added an extra loop to the outside of the fiddle yard, which works from a storage length point of view but can only be accessed at the right hand end from the down relief line. (The left hand end is not a problem because all tracks come together in the branch single line!)

I think I shall have to rejig the points at the right hand end of the fiddle yard so that the new loop and the old up loop can both be accessed from/to the up and down relief lines. When I have figured this out I'll upload a diagram.

Keep your cool, stay safe, and stay away from the crowds.
Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Here, fellow modellers, as promised, are some shots of my Thomas and Greens Pick up freight.

I should say, that there are few couplings at present, although as a fixed set I will probably use narrow tension locks except for Kadees to both ends of the toad and loco, and to the outer end of the front and rear wagons.

Maidenhead-T&G-1.jpg

For a change, we will start with a view of the departing train. We can see some detail of the Toad, a factory weathered Bachmann model, as yet without a tail lamp. In front of that is an open C, a Ratio kit, which is lightly weathered and loaded with red pipes for use on repairs to the Mill steam pipework. In front of this is another ratio item, this time a china clay wagon bringing in clay for whitening the paper. The hood is a tarpaulin type used before the introduction of the modern blue hoods. This wagon and hood are also weathered.

Maidenhead-T&G-3.jpg

The next two wagons in the train are better seen in the second photo. These vans are empty stock to be filled with boxes of the mills writing paper. The eagle eyed amongst you will realise that the first van is a Mogo. By the early 60s, the carriage of individual vehicles had diminished greatly, factory output being moved on open bogie car carriers, so many mogos were used as general freight vans.

The last photo brings us to the head of the train and shows the loco, a standard Bachmann 57xx except for being renumbered. It has yet to be lightly weathered and have lamps fitted. Behind the loco is a tarpaulin covered 5 plank open. This could be carrying any one of a number of items used by the mill. Perhaps lubricant, perhaps boxes of valves for use with the pipes in the open c? The wagon has the more usual flat tarpaulin cover and it and the wagon are medium weathered. The tarpaulin is also missing ropes etc to retain it to the wagon.

Maidenhead-T&G-2 .jpg

You may recall me saying that this set of wagons is set 3 in my running system and is only used for this outward train to the paper mill.
The return trip uses set 7 which will have more vans, and any opens will have their tarpaulins folded up in one corner, once I have a satisfactory way to portray folded tarpaulins!

I hope you find the above photos of interest?

Please feel free to comment, or point out anything you think wrong with the models.

Best regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

Good Afternoon All,
Thinking about the information I had posted over the last few days on my High Wycombe Branch goods trains, I decided that things might have got a bit confusing.
So today I am posting the allocation of the wagon sets to each train together with details of what the sets contain:-

Thus the morning Slough to Hinksey freight has set 1 (which comprises empty coal wagons mainly 16t Steel minerals) and set 2, which comprises only fitted vans.
The morning pick up to Thomas & Green’s has set 3, which is dedicated to this train and has a mixture of sheeted opens and empty vans.

The morning Hinksey to Slough, which doesn’t get to Slough until 16.30 has set 4 which contains a empty fitted 5 plank + white meat vans and fruit fitted vans, and set 6 which contains full coal wagon.
Before that the returning Thomas & Green’s would have set 7 whose contents are similar to set 3, and the outbound Taplow to High Wycombe would have set 5, containing 2 cattle vans, an Esso tanker, and 2 unfitted vans. This train returns with set 1. (contents as above)
This leaves the evening Slough to Oxley with sets 4 and 7, and the evening Aylesbury to Paddington with sets 6 and 2.

Set 8 containing a fitted van, two presflows, and an empty pipe wagon would start in the fiddle yard and in the morning run a clockwise trip to the Goods Shed Yard attached to the 0930 morning Pilot from Slough (which in reality ran as a LE). There it swaps with set 6 left there the previous evening, and with the Pilot engine makes a quick (fictitious) trip to Taplow, with the pilot returning LE. Later set 8 swaps again with set 6 on the evening Aylesbury to Slough.

So under this scheme, the outward Thomas and Green trips has a set that is not used again. This is a more accurate depiction of this freight which tended to have its own peculiar consists to service the paper mill’s needs.

The sets will have Kadees at each end of the set except Sets 8 which will have individually Kadees on each wagon so that they can be shunted in the Goods Shed Yard, as will the extra wagons sitting in that yard which can be introduced into the consists of set 8 to give some variety.

I hope this makes the consists of the Branch line freights a little clearer?

The operation of the Toads will be interesting as only the Thomas & Green's and the Loudwater Goods will have the same toad each way! So a total of 6 toads will be required.

Hope you are al happy in your modelling?
Stay safe
Regards
Paul

[Tallpaul70]

The amount of shunting that can be done "on scene" in my "Lower Thames Goods Shed" layout is limited, as the goods yard consists of the Goods Shed siding and one other, with the Branch Carriage Siding doubling as the headshunt!

However, this layout is only a quarter of the area of my eventual "Lower Thames Yard" layout and more importantly the latter will include Maidenhead's relief lines and loops, so that there are several mainline pickups that can shunt, whereas in the Wycombe Branch, which is the area of the Goods Shed layout, only the late night pickup from Aylesbury shunted!
The larger Lower Thames Yard layout will also have the advantage of a low level storage yard with several sidings accessible from the operating position and a yard shunting loco.

With yesterday's news that model shops (as non essential shops!) should be able to reopen mid June, there is a prospect that my layout builders will be able to get back to work soon.
So I have to consult with them and decide whether I do more work on the "Goods Shed" layout or whether it reverts to its original purpose of being a test and programming track?
While the planning and effort put into the Goods Shed layout will not be wasted, I think I will move forward on planning for the larger layout where for instance, goods trains will be of 2, 3 or 4 sets long as against 1 or 2 sets on the Goods Shed Layout.

One aspect of the Goods Yard layout planning I will take forward, and post here, is the Wycombe Branch Passenger Trains, as I will need them for the larger layout, the only difference being that the suburban coach and DMUs trains will be 3 or 4 coaches instead of two! The auto trains and class 122s will be the same in both layouts.


A "tricks" which I just couldn't find a way to work into the Goods Shed Layout, was my loaded/ unloaded coal wagons:-

In Lower Thames Yard there will be two sidings which start in the scenic yard and run parallel to the relief lines disappearing under a bridge to re appear in the Wycombe Branch part of the fiddle yard.
These work by receiving full coal wagons in the scenic area, which are pushed back so that the rear wagon is under the bridge. A shunter approaches from the fiddle yard and pulls the full coal wagons back into the fiddle yard, then it picks up a set of empty coal wagons from a siding and pushes them back under the bridge to replace the full ones. Later these empties are taken away by a pick up freight.

I hoe you are all enjoying the sunshine and your modelling?
Cheers
Paul