Points not throwing fully across

[ajcooper4]

My points were all working well. OO gauge Code 75 Electrofrog. I began using the peco micro switches (PL13) to change polarity but they are tricky to line up and more recent points have been 'juiced' using the Gaugemaster DCC80 Autofrog - altogether easier and more reliable, if you don't mind hearing the relays clicking!

I am having derailing problems (one direction only) with an original point fitted with the PL13. On close inspection the blades leave a tiny gap on one side. UNderneath the microswitch is as far across as it can go.

This is my thinking. It seems the point/microswitch may have shifted ever so slightly and because the PL13 is connected the point motor's movement is restricted. I plan to remove the PL13 and check for freer movement and replace the PL13 (if full movement restored) with a DCC80 autojuicer.

I am still a relative novice: does this make sense please?

[Brian]

Hi
Is the PL10 motor directly connected to the point via the PL10 motors tabs passing through the slots in the points sleepers or is it fitted to the baseboard underside?

If the latter, then you should by slackening the fixing screws be able to move the motor sideways to allow better throw the one way.
If its fitted directly to the underside of the point then it should self centre correctly, but its worth checking its not being forced over to one side a little by the baseboard hole not being large enough.

I have used PL13 switches on PL10 motors and find they do allow full throw if fitted correctly. I always fit the motor and switch together off the layout and use the smallest drop of superglue on each end on the metal frame then centrally fit the switch and operate the drive pin over and back by hand several time. But I do have to admit the PL13 is not the best of switches.

[ajcooper4]

Thanks Brian. Here's a picture showing that the blade is not fully closed. This particular point and motor and micro switch was the most fiddly - not sure why.

I have found the point motors to have , shall I say, greater margin for error, when not connected to the microswitches. I also find them hideously difficult to alter when in place. It was working fine but now it isn't.

I am actually tempted to remove the point motor and microswitch and fit a new point motor altogether and add the DCC80 autojuicer. Assuming that is, that the point will physically throw both ways fully across when not connected up to the motor and micro switch.

Further thoughts very welcome. Thank you as always.

[Mountain Goat]

Though it may not be the easiest test, but does the point function correctly without being attached to the solenoid? As I've known code 100 point blades to snag on the plastic sleeper base or slightly bend at the ends or slightly start to lean so the top of the point blade forms a gap. Also some designs have a little electrical contact tab on the blade which touches the underside of the nearest rail and these can act up and need adjustment. (I am not sure if electrofrog points have these) .
If it is a blade issue go very carefully and gently to make any adjustments. It is more likely a little friction caused by point solenoid alignment which having the switch highlights it.

[Mike Parkes]

The PL13 is a pretty cheaply made switch that Peco charge far too much for IMO and I gave up using them following a number failing to make the necessary contact. The DCC80 is a better solution; before they came on the market I used a very lightly sprung burglar alarm microswitch that Maplin(RIP) sold which could be activated by the solenoid operating rod without affecting its throw of the point motor

[teedoubleudee]

What about the point spring, is it present and working well?

[ajcooper4]

As far as I can tell the point itself is functioning correctly. I suspect the mechanism has moved a tiny wee bit which has made the difference and hence the derailments. I will look later but my hunch is if I remove the micro switch I will restore full movement. In which case I will replace with a DCC80.

[ajcooper4]

Update

DCC08 fitted. With micro switch removed there appeared to be more throw but at a higher speed derailment occured again. Removed point motor completely. I physically changed the points by hand - there still seems to be an underthrow - see picture.

I suspect it may be a lift and replace. Any other ideas folks?

[RogerB]

As asked in post #6, is the over centre spring in place? If it is and it is working correctly there is something in the way. There should be a definite click into place and if you are trying to move the point by hand and the issue is still present there must be an obstruction. R-

[ajcooper4]

Roger thank you and my apologies. Didn't quite understand - thirty years away from trains and I've forgotten what hasn't anyway changed!

I will check.

Mind you I would add this - it seems to move freely by hand without obstruction - it's just that it's about half a millimeter short of throwon that one side = enough for a derailment