HS2

[brian1951]

Yes,Providing there are no Political references.

[IanS]

It will be hard to keep from making political (as opposed to Party Political) points.

My view - a lot of money on a project for Londoners and the ruling elite. The journey time cut from Newcastle or Edinburgh or Aberdeen isn't going to make the slightest difference to the majority who live in those areas.

Should we continue because millions of pounds have already been spent? Maybe, maybe not!

[teedoubleudee]

It will be hard to keep from making political (as opposed to Party Political) points.

Should we continue because millions of pounds have already been spent? Maybe, maybe not!

One way of looking at it is that at sometime, all major lines will need to be upgraded if we dont want to end up a third world country. Public transport will figure much more in the future as private motoring will become less of an option as unaffordable electric cars will be the only choice. It wont happen in my lifetime but it certainly will during my grandkids.

[Walkingthedog]

Won’t help people around London. Will pass pretty close to me. I think we need to move with the times. Nothing can be done in this country without hoards of complaints. HS2 at this end runs practically along the route of the M40. People moaned and groaned about that motorway because of newts and orchids etc. and how it would ruin the countryside. Well you don’t even notice it is there now and it takes up far more room than a double track railway line.

Would appear that it is those up north who are asking for it to be built. Well that what it says in the papers and they are always right.

Terry you have hit the nail on the head.

Ruling elite my ask a policeman if you want to know the time.

[Steve M]

It was the same with the high speed link for the channel tunnel. It runs alongside the A2/M2 and under a village populated by nimbys. It looked a bit of a mess for all of twelve months - nobody even notices it now.

When they put the Javelins on the North Kent line they ran at the same snail-like pace of the old stoppers until they branched off to Ebbsfleet where they then took 12 minutes to reach St Pancras.
As I was working in the City, I would take a 10 minute drive to Ebbsfleet, catch the High Speed train to St Pancras, one stop on the tube, job done. It was about 35 minutes for door to door rather than the previous two hours.

I read somewhere that HS2 benefits local traffic because as it's a separate line, the timetables on the old lines don't need to leave space for the expresses. This space they can use for a more frequent stopping service.

Winners all round I reckon.

What I find quite pathetic is how long the country spends talking about these large infrastructure projects ( and while they talk the cost goes up). Compare that to the high speed network built in Spain so that now, they claim nowhere in Spain is more than two hours from Madrid. And while the spaniards built it, our committee was still choosing between hobnobs and custard creams.

[LC&DR]

As a nation we need to look at the capacity of our infrastructure, not just transport, but all the things we depend upon for daily life. However looking at transport for a start -

A duplicate line is needed to accommodate all the persons wishing to travel between the South East and the North of England because despite all the money spent on it the West Coast Main Line can no longer cope and if there has to be a new line it might as well be a high speed one.

And it isn't just London to Birmingham and Manchester either, the trains between Manchester and Leeds, and between Birmingham and Derby and Sheffield are stretched to breaking point too.

Unless there is a significant breakthrough in vehicle technology the electric car is not going to make huge inroads into national traffic problems and carbon emissions and if we as a nation want to reduce our contribution to global warming then there has to be an increase in the use of public transport. The range of an electric car is still woefully short, and the inconvenience of having to recharge it every two to three hours, on a long journey, will be a huge inconvenience to most travellers. Fine for buzzing around town, but the prospect of using one to go on holiday from Leeds to Cornwall sounds seriously difficult. And of course there is meagre re-charging infrastructure along the Motorway network.

So as a nation we need a better rail network, one which encourages people to use it. The current system is broken, punctuality and reliability is extremely poor. Train capacity at certain times of the day is severely inadequate, people who pay thousands of pounds for a season ticket should be guaranteed a seat. This will require new lines, improvements on existing lines and much better interchange between modes of transport too. The way trains are operated also needs a serious upgrade. The current dependency of visual signals does not fully utilise the potential line capacity, so the sooner the railways are equipped with automatic train control the better.

The cuts to the rail network in the 1960s was in hindsight a very poor political decision. It will be impossible to reverse in all but the least number of cases.

[Walkingthedog]

The more 'elite' that travel on HS2 the more space there will be for the poor people on the overcrowded lines in use now. Go for it and scrap Heathrows third runway.

[bulleidboy]

Other than building a new dedicated line - which HS2 is, I find it difficult to see how very many journeys can be improved and more people get seats. I commuted for thirty seven years from Basingstoke to Wateroo. In 1972 a fast train took forty five minutes, you had to stand, and the annual fare was £151. In 2009, when I stopped commuting, the journey on a fast train took forty five minutes, you had to stand, and the fare was approximately £2750.
I have experienced trains having additional carriages added, which is great for about a month - until passengers realise there are seats available, and by two months that train will be standing only. Many lines in the UK do have a very comprehensive service of fast and stopping trains - in the rush hour Basingstoke probably has about nine trains an hour to London. We are lucky in Basingstoke, because there are four lines all the way to London, so stopping trains don't interfere with fast/semi-fast trains, this is not the case in much of the country. The problem in most of the UK is the historical nature of the country, as WTD mentioned, newts and butterfly localities have to be avoided, we build right up to the edge of the track - there is no room to expand. Have you travelled on the M25 it's a disgrace, it should have been built with six lanes in each direction. Those that come up with the ideas unfortunately do not really think ahead - well they think they do - but it is difficult to see that there will ever be a proper infrastructure for charging electric cars. Having very recently watched a motoring journalist test an electric car, he was staggered to find there were no charging points that would take the particular plug attached to his test car - in Oxford there was a huge bank of Tesla chargers with one car attached, but he couldn't use them - chargers nee to be universal.

[IanS]

Real life electric car mileage is, as has been said, woefully sparse. Try finding more than 2 or 3 points anywhere. Here in the NE wherever I go they are usually occupied. The problem of universal plug/sockets can of course be got around by adapters. That is not the only problem because the rate of charge varies, apparently. As far as I can tell, you either have an account or use your piece of plastic, that fits in the wallet/purse, that replaces real money.

Looking at a Smart Electric car, I can't get from where I live in Washington to my friend in Stanhope (a 45min 30 mile drive) and back on one charge. That is using their official figures. I'd have one if the distance possible was more like the 600 miles (real world driving) on a tank in my car.

None of my regular journeys (I'm retired so don't commute) are well served by any public transport. Buses, non existent after 6pm on some routes. Trains/Metro nowhere near me. I'd have to use the non-existent bus if I wished to go out at night! Taxi, yes but their cheap set far ends at 6pm. A night out in a taxi is £11 plus the cost of drinks/food and that is because I travel local.

Long distant travel, such as provided by HS2 is best done by car for me. Flying isn't an option for a number of reason. Oh, but the HS2 or 2b won't be anywhere near my northern cities. The nearest it my reach is Leeds and currently the journey there takes 1 1/2 hrs by train. Newcastle to King's Cross in London is around the 3hrs. So the 40-50 mins reduction from Birmingham isn't going to make much difference. Not many commute by train from Newcastle to London on a daily basis - they'd spend most of the working day on a train. Even with 1h off the journey times it's still a morning or afternoon written off by the time you include getting to the station and from KGX to their locations within London.

[LC&DR]

HS2 by itself will not help, the whole transport infrastructure is woefully inadequate. The latest scare is the 'Smart Motorway' which was a cheapskate way of increasing capacity, but is a considerable erosion in safety. As someone who over the last five years needed to use the M62 from Leeds to Manchester at least weekly I can state that using the 'Smart' sections were a constant source of anxiety. This road is well up to its maximum capacity, ever in off peak periods, in the peaks it was stop start for miles and miles. I stopped making this journey last October and my nerves have nearly stopped jangling! The parallel Trans Pennine railway route is also inadequate, I had intended to use this for my own journeys, but I wasn't prepared to stand for an hour or more in an overcrowded 185 DMU.

What in my opinion is required is the modernisation and electrification of the total main line rail network. Branch lines where possible to be re-instated using hybrid technology, and 'bus services re-cast to serve main transport hubs with significant introduction of electric powered buses (trolleybus or battery as appropriate) . Urban tramways should be developed where appropriate. Railway infrastructure should be adapted to generate electrical power where it is suitable. Wind turbines to be erected on railway land, photo-voltaic panels also placed where maximum benefit can be obtained. The railway has many south facing embankments and cutting slopes where these can be used for maximum efficiency.

I doubt in my lifetime a real solution will be provided. There isn't the political or economic will to start it let alone bring it to fruition.