Model Railway Forum

Hello,

Trying to decide on my first layout and just after a bit of advice please.

I would like to do HO/OO scale to utilise exisitng engines and purchases.

I have a 6 x 9m (20x30ft) metal clad shed that I was hoping to house my setup. I'm currently in the process of adding additional insulation to roof and walls to stabilise the temperatue (Tasmania, Southern Australia).

I have young children (2 and 4 yrs) so I may need some continuos running then I was hoping to add some industry for possibly some swithcing work for me (although not sure if I like switching yet as havn't tried it), even if I have to pick it up, get on the loop and deliver it back.

Now this is what I can't decide, do I build a standalone board (the horrid 1200x2400 (4x8) or similar, I can have access on all sides.
Or do I build a room in the shed and build around the walls?
The problem I'm having is you need near 1200mm (4ft) to do a 180 degree turn with any kind of decent radius.
Was thinking a L Girder base structure with probably 12-20mm plywood on top. Cork roadbed. Electrofrog or similar turnouts.
Can't decide on a DCC system, kind of tossing up between a NCE powercab or go the DCC++ type of system.
Probably not going to have any super huge Locos or wagons, smaller COCO and BOBO engines and maybe up to 2-6-0 steam for fun for the boys.

This is my current layout thoughts (sorry about the scribble)



Outer loop has track radius of approx 21 Inches
Inner Loop has a track radius between 17-20 inch whcih could probably be smidged to a bit over 18 with on site tweaking.
The only feedback I've managed to collect so far is that inner loop radius may be too small so consider removing it. And the turnouts off the loops into yards or siding may be too close to the loop curves (which I don't think I can fix easily other that using a curved turnout off the loop to come into the yards/sidings, but have heard mixed experiences from people using curved turnouts)
Possibly wanting to add 1 or 2 more sidings to the main industry for wagon storage - Fiddleing
The road will probably move more to the centre of the layout giving room for addional buildings on the top side of the road.
Probably a depression for a creek or drain and a coal trestle.
Probably a hill and cutting on the top right of the board.
This is the Walther kit I have for the main industry (orange object in plan)



This is an earlier iteration of the plan with curved turnouts



I would like your thoughts on these designs/ideas please, especially if I have done anything overly silly in my design.
Thank you,
Ian

I like going round the walls as it gives a nice long run, though in excessive heat and temperature differences,, a lifting part would probably best be avoided... So maybe a U shaped labour with loops at each end so you get a long U shaped continuous loop of a layout? (Rather like a U shaped dog bone). The wider parts where the 180° turns will be need not be in the same place as one can stagger them to have better access past. You will have a lot of track to get though. Flexible track is cheaper and use sectional track for the sharper curves. Better to try and use 2nd and 3rd radius Curves or wider if you can, and consider how far one can reach to clean the track.

Hi Ian

I do not know what the Tasmanian climate is but here in soggy Blighty metal sheds are notorious for condensation problems and oven like temperatures in the brief dry period we call summer. Both extremes are not good for a layout.

Probably the best way to mitigate both is literally build a room within a room. This would be a framework offset from the outer walls leaving an air gap, insulation within the framework and a vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation before sheeting making sure everything is taped and sealed air/moisture tight. Leaving ventilation openings in the outer walls will encourage air movement removing moisture in the air gap.

Are you planning to use the shed for other purposes as well as housing the layout? An 8x4 is going to look lost in a space that size. I would echo MG’s proposal of building around the walls with the space you have you will have no issues with producing nice gentle curves.

If you are deliberately trying to keep the layout small ovals like that, no matter how much scenery you add will always have that toy town look about them. Maybe that is what you want considering your children’s age but it may not satisfy in the long run? Alternatives are to create a fiddle yard on one side of the oval concealed by a back drop or have a central backdrop dividing the layout into two scenic areas, both give the impression trains are coming from and going to a destination rather than simply going round and round.

Richard

Tricky Dicky wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 5:15 pm Hi Ian

I do not know what the Tasmanian climate is but here in soggy Blighty metal sheds are notorious for condensation problems and oven like temperatures in the brief dry period we call summer. Both extremes are not good for a layout.

Probably the best way to mitigate both is literally build a room within a room. This would be a framework offset from the outer walls leaving an air gap, insulation within the framework and a vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation before sheeting making sure everything is taped and sealed air/moisture tight. Leaving ventilation openings in the outer walls will encourage air movement removing moisture in the air gap.

Are you planning to use the shed for other purposes as well as housing the layout? An 8x4 is going to look lost in a space that size. I would echo MG’s proposal of building around the walls with the space you have you will have no issues with producing nice gentle curves.

If you are deliberately trying to keep the layout small ovals like that, no matter how much scenery you add will always have that toy town look about them. Maybe that is what you want considering your children’s age but it may not satisfy in the long run? Alternatives are to create a fiddle yard on one side of the oval concealed by a back drop or have a central backdrop dividing the layout into two scenic areas, both give the impression trains are coming from and going to a destination rather than simply going round and round.

Richard

Thank you Richard,
We can get up to 35C (95F) outside temps a few times a year which makes it to like 45c + (113F) inside the shed, hence the insulation upgrade underway - tis too darn hot to do anything! I'm hopoing the insulation to drop temps down to the 25c (77F) range. I've never had any condensation problems as yet inside the shed but part of this insulation upgrade is sealing all the edges etc.
The shed is also my workshop, auxilarry storage and 3D printers, work benches and tools etc. I would have to see how I can reconfigure everything to build another room inside. Nothing is impossible if you have an apprentice eh?
I only have a skylight over one portion of the shed, would you advise using a portion of it over the room or avoiding it? I feel I was getting additional heat through the skylight and I'm actually planning to put some shadecloth under the skylight when I'm putting the new ceiling insulation in.

Hi Ian

Those temperatures are high we in UK have experienced one or two days like that in recent summers presumably due to global warming but fortunately never over any extended periods.

I can vouch for insulation keeping things cool. I have a large timber framed garage which I have divided off for garage/workshop and what was about to become my railway room until domestic management decided we were moving again to be nearer family in our dotage. That aside that insulated room has 75mm PIR under the floor, in the walls and ceiling and there is a double glazed window in one wall. In the summer the garage part can get stifling but the room remains cool as a cucumber. In winter a small 2.5Kw fan heater brings it up to workable temperature in about 20mins and it remains like that for hours.

As for sky lights I am not a fan here in the UK my experience with them and sun roofs in cars is that they inevitably leak sometime down the line. We have a conservatory attached to the back of the house and it originally had double glazed roof panels and on sunny days it became stifling and did little to retain heat in the cool evenings. That roof was replaced with an insulated roof and we have never looked back.


Richard

Hi Everyone

I have seen a few videos from a chap called Greg based in Australia who has a youtube channel called fishplate films. In 1 of his videos, Greg had an issue where a straight section of track had buckled and lifted to roughly 2 - 3 inches above the baseboard resulting in the track section requiring replacement which he shows during the video.

Whilst replacing the buckled straight track, Greg also mentions that for any modellers who live in hot or changeable climates, that the best approach to track laying is to to have gaps between sections ( not necessarily every piece of track but now and again, ideally not on curved track ) to allow for expansion of the rails and to prevent them from buckling.

As previously mentioned in another post, running around the walls will give a longer run for the locomotives and if necessary, the baseboards could cross the doorway at an angle but I do recommend including rail gaps where possible as this will save you a lot of money and negate the need to replace track sections too often.

Hope this helps.

Hi guys, I have started an alternative design, just seems to take so long!

I'm not particularly happy with it yet but have to start somewhere.

This would be if I made a 4m x 3m room.
I'm seeing issues for access over the 1500mm deep sections.

This design has min 24 inch radius curves.

I can only really see two large areas for industries, in the lobes of the bends.

Might increase the top 'along the wall' depth from 500mm to 600mm.

I suspect I might have to increase the room size even further. I don't see much point in going to 5m wide so I might as well go 6m wide. And might have to increase depth by a further 500-1000mm.

Even with 24inc radius do I still need to have straights between opposing curves to avoid S bend derailments?