060 Pannier

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060 Pannier

#1

Post by Aussie 3 railer »

Hello All,

Just spent the day going insane. I have been trying to get this mongrel pannier back together again. Got the motor side up and going but I am having no end of drama with the linkage. Just as I get the quartering done it locks up almost immediately. I remove the linkage and the motor operates fine. I just checked the attach service sheet an I see both front links have a different part number. I can't see the difference as both rears have the same part numbers. Trying to get thing quartered is a nightmare. Hopefully something will drop from the sky and sort this before I dump it in the bin. Hopefully that doesnt happen as this is one of my first buys.

One side note if anyone happens to have the longer stepped centre link screw and wants to separate with it I am surely interested.

Dirk

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Rog (RJ)
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Re: 060 Pannier

#2

Post by Rog (RJ) »

There is an opposite way round bend or crank in the two front connecting rods.
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Re: 060 Pannier

#3

Post by Aussie 3 railer »

Thank you 060 Pannier going to have another crack at it today I'll persevere until I get this damn thing right.

Dirk
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Re: 060 Pannier

#4

Post by Mountain Goat »

Hope you have success. The main thing about quartering is that all the wheels on one side are a quarter of a turn compared to all the wheels on the other side of the locomotive. I am used to the earlier panniers which came out before. From what I can see your one has split connecting rods. The principle is the same. One thing comes to mind and that is if the wheels are pushed too far together or if there is a slight buckle going on where a wheel maybe binding on a con rod or on the chassis or even the possibility on some chassis that the pickups may be getting caught on the wheels? An idea is to assemble the chassis without the motor and it should run freely when all is good if pushed by hand.
A possible issue can happen if the plastic wheel bearings on one of the wheels is worn so the wheel quartering can slip out of place. I used to add a little glue but these days, on some older locos Peters Spares actually do replacement plastic wheel inserts BUT only on some locos such as older Triang, but it could be worth a check if you have this issue.

(I am systematically working through the usual possibilities of issues).

While some later Hornby 0-6-0's had a few running issues with their SSPP (Super strong pulling power) chassis (One can tell one has one of these as centre wheels have traction tyres and one outer pair of wheels is lightly sprung), I believe these came out around a decade after your model? Yours should be a good one in theory. I have only briefly owned a Hornby open cab pannier and it seemed to run ok, but sold it as by then I was into B.R. diesels so someone else got to enjoy it.

Those are the usual culprits that I can think of as I write so I hope all goes well.
Budget modelling in 0-16.5...
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Re: 060 Pannier

#5

Post by Aussie 3 railer »

[Morning Mountain Goat,

You hit the nail on the head with the bush slipping on the wheel. It seemed OK visually and even when I pushed it onto the axle but under power (what there actually is) it slipped a tad just to cause the linkage to misalign.

Another odd thing when I fitted the links together with knuckles upward they just didn't sit right and weren't parallel to the chassis sort of thing. When I changed it to knucles down they sat perfect. Maybe a slight bend in the step ends or I have odd links. Maybe someone else had problems in its previous life. For the short run time I had it did run as it should. I can get bushes here in AU that are supposed to be ex Triang so hopefully they will suit. Failing that I'll have to get some nylon or similar and get busy on the lathe.

The wheels have had a hard life and have a few chips. I am going to remove the flange lip from the centre wheels as my other older engines seem to negotiate curves better without having six flanged wheels.

I'll keep on the lookout for another chassis or parts as I still need the longer shouldered linkage screw.

Thanks for your input it is aplreciated.

Dirk
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Re: 060 Pannier

#6

Post by Mountain Goat »

I am glad it helped. I sometimes used superglue on the end of the axle as long as the axle isn't oily. It would last a year or two. I much prefer repairing older stuff... Keeping it on the rails. I do agree that they can be puzzling when one just does not see what is going on! Once had a Lima diesel power bogie locking up and then it would run again as if nothing had happened. It was odd. One day I thought "That's it" and stripped the whole lot down, and found right behind the wheels hidden between the plastic underframe and the circular pancake motor was a track pin which the motor magnet had attracted. It was so hidden I had not noticed it was there. It would move and jam one of the wheels up, but when I reversed it and went again, it would shift the pin and it would run fine... Until the next time the pin moved! It had me puzzled for ages as I had the motor itself apart several times but had never checked the underframe side as there didn't seem to be any room to hide anything in there!

Some of the more modern complex stuff today has gears on top of gears! There are a lot more moving parts and a few extra electrical stuff such as a circuit board to make them more easily converted to DCC. Yes, they are a lot easier to convert to DCC, but if one is just using 12v DC, they just have a little more that could go wring such as the DCC socket plug can come lose or act like a dry joint. Hidden mask rot is another potential issue in the last 15 years or so. But the old stuff just soldiers on!

Probably the most impressive older 00 locos I love are those made by Hornby Dublo (2 rail) and Wrenn. (Hornby Dublo did make 3 rail before that but it needs 3 rail track). Wrenn basically took over where Hornby Dublo left off with their 2 rail, and built good solid heavy locos. (Some later designs were a little less solid such as their class 20 or Deltic or Co-Bo etc). The Wrenn class 08 is a superb piece of work when it comes to its mechanical side, and was more than capable of even running outdoors in all weather in long term use, though don't expect to convert one of these Wrenn or Dublo 08's to DCC. If one removes the body and looks, one does not even want to go there! But for DC, it is an incredibly long lasting loco if one does not mind a giant screw in the top of its body! :D The Hornby Dublo or Wrenn 2 rail Duchess or 2-6-4T or the A4 are all lovely heavyweight locos, as is the 2-8-0. Very nice things! One may need to change the couplings and ensure one has a 2 rail version, and avoids finescale paintwork... But they are very nice and a bargain these days too!
(The only thing many older ones suffer from with age are weak magnets, but these can be remagnetized, as there are places that do this if needed.nother than motor brushes they tend to just go on and on!)
Budget modelling in 0-16.5...
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Re: 060 Pannier

#7

Post by Aussie 3 railer »

You certainly did help and thank you for the reply. You mention not using super glue on an oily axle I have used the attached glue for years on other projects from oily model plans to odel ships. It works on oily surfaces. Thought I would mention it just in case. Guess its available over there.
I buy non runners as they are cheap enough and plentiful. My plan is to convert my lot of Queen Elizabeth,s to to use these Chinese can motors I saw on the Re-Power site. At $3 odd I can't miss and it should give them a new life. Plan is also to convert a job lot of non running tender drives later.

Dirk

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Re: 060 Pannier

#8

Post by Aussie 3 railer »

Forgot to also thank you for the OOBill site. I have been looking for it but didn't have the correct name. His builds suit my interest to a T.

Dirk
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Re: 060 Pannier

#9

Post by 508035 »

Hi Aussie 3 Railer

OOBill is the name of his youtube channel and there are videos that Bill has done where he's fitted cd motors into hornby and lima locomotives aswell as fitting replacement motors ( developed by Peter's Spares ) to replace the old triang hornby X04 and XO3 motors, but at £28.50 + £2.50 p&p ( not sure what that equals in Australian $ but they are a more updated motor and suitable for dcc operation and give excellent slow speed control for shunting and depot movements.

1 thing to beware of with the Peter's Spares X04 and XO3 replacement motors is that at top speed they do run very fast so your 0-6-0 pannier tank locomotive would look like it's flying round the layout at 150 mph ( 240 kmh ).

I have a 1990s ( ex tender drive ) princess class locomotive which I converted to locomotive drive using the X04 replacement motor ( with a brass worm gear ) and the vast improvement in the loco's slow speed running is much better than the tender drive motor.
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Re: 060 Pannier

#10

Post by Aussie 3 railer »

Looks like I'll be spending more time on U tube and this forum now. I wasn't planning on starting on converting my engine and rolling stock but thought I needed a break from track laying. I did see Peters Spares motors a while back and thought they would be ideal. There is a New Zealand seller offering what looks similar for a basically similar converted price but is out of stock and is a bit lax at answering emails. Basically the conversion rate is around 50% or thereabouts but if you need it you need it.

I would be interested in having a look at your tender drive conversion if you wouldn't mind. I have quite a few that I plan on doing in the future. I thought converting the QE,s would be a good learning curve as I didn't pay much for them so if it didn't work out as planned not a disaster.

I have been making spear point bearings for some tenders at the moment. I found the Romford ones were to short and the wear from years of work on the plastic chassis had elongated the axle holes so I need bigger diameter and longer length. So far it looks like it is working. My other rolling stock is going to need the same as they are all mostly older stock or from the 00 era. I like the looks and paint work from that period personally. Probably going to need strong engines to pull this stuff.

Dirk
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